The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"

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Dina:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on March 22, 2020, 09:42:03 PM ---While I know what your reasons for hating Maggie are and don't really "get it," for some reason it tickles me to no end. I smile just about every time you bring it up. Susan's kind of a week character (plot wise) in the first three books, and I think, that has a lot to do with why Jim "put her on a bus" in Grave Peril.

--- End quote ---

Glad to make you smile  :)

morriswalter, I simply disagree.

morriswalters:
@Bad Alias
You have to ask Jim if you ever get the chance, that level of detail doesn't exist.  The idea of the Doom of Damocles is not Jim's contrivance.  Nor is it out of the comic books. And I paraphrased the tale when I said that Harry's actions have consequences.
--- Quote ---The sword of Damocles is frequently used in allusion to this tale, epitomizing the imminent and ever-present peril faced by those in positions of power. More generally, it is used to denote the sense of foreboding engendered by a precarious situation,[5] especially one in which the onset of tragedy is restrained only by a delicate trigger or chance.
--- End quote ---
That's from the Wikipedia and the last is the salient point in this discussion I believe. And you either can see what I mean or you can't. I can't make it any clearer.

@Dina
You and almost everyone else.  But it's your book, read it as you please. :)

Dina:
 :)

Bad Alias:
I don't think the sword of Damocles applies to the Kim situation. It's more of a butterfly effect thing. No matter what Harry does or doesn't do, there will be consequences. Most of them unforeseeable and seemingly random. Harry can push things harder than most people, so he does have to be more careful. He does have a greater general level of responsibility. But I still don't see the different path that he could have taken that would have been more responsible. I don't see how Harry caused Kim's death in Fool Moon. I can see how there is a chain of events starting with Harry helping Kim whenever they met that leads to her death when Harry meets her, but such a thing is so attenuated that saying her death is in any way Harry's fault because of that seems a bridge too far to me.

The Sword of Damocles is a tale about the consequences of unjust actions coming home to roost. Normally I hear the phrase used more as something hanging over someone's head generally and not necessarily because they acted unjustly. Kind of how I often see the Albatross reference misused.

Harry "causing" Kim's death is more of a consequence of going to Burger King instead of McDonald's kind of thing. A decision with no moral weight having grave consequences that were quite unforeseen.

Kim was dead the moment she agreed to help MacFinn and decided not to play it straight with Harry. The only way Harry caused that is by putting an ad in the Yellow Pages in order to help people.

Bad Alias:
I was going over this thread to see how we started down this path. The thing is the books, aka Harry, say that Kim/Susan died/turned because Harry concealed crucial information from them. My position is this is false. No one has been able to show me what information he concealed from them that would have made a bit of difference.

Some claim Harry gave too much information. I don't see how that's the case either, but it would refute the premise that he withheld critical information.

Harry probably should have had the Walmart talk with Murphy in book one. Chapter 2 or 3 of Fool Moon at the latest. That's the only withholding of critical information I blame Harry for. But I also blame Murphy for it. She was pretty irrational in books 1&2 because Jim was writing to the noir p.i. detective mold, and Murphy was the obstructionist law enforcement colleague role, and they were Jim's first professional quality books. Also, these characters would be both pretty boring and unbelievable if they made all the right moves.

Morris and I disagree about where moral responsibility comes from, and that's fine. Where moral responsibility comes from is also beyond the point of whether or not Harry withheld critical information that would have changed either situation.

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