The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Dina:
I had not guessed it.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Dina on March 16, 2020, 08:14:28 PM ---Again, not kids. They are women.
And I am failing to see your point. I am not arguing with Harry but with you (and others).
--- End quote ---
Hopefully we're arguing about a fictional literary character. And I've come to the conclusion that I have lost the point. ;)
--- Quote from: didymos on March 16, 2020, 08:16:08 PM ---Martin was on the watch list, not Susan.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but you know, birds of a feather.
Mira:
--- Quote ---The thing with Kim Delaney was that Harry warned her there was danger in what she was asking, but he didn't tell her why it was dangerous. Harry brings this up in later books; keeping knowledge from people to protect them versus giving them complete knowledge so they can make their own informed decisions. For whatever reasons, Kim Delaney wasn't honest with Harry. Perhaps she made a promise to McFinn to keep their conversations private. That sounds reasonable to me, but we will never know for sure.
--- End quote ---
He couldn't spell it out because it was against the rules of the White Council to divulge the types of demons that kind of circle was supposed trap. Let's not forget that the Doom had just been lifted from his head in the previous book. As a result Harry may have felt compelled to walk the straight and narrow. But even if he told her everything about it, it doesn't follow that the result wouldn't have been the same. Harry also feared what the Council would do to her if they found her using that type of summoning circle, she'd lose her head.. He then tries to warn her in every possible way not to attempt it because if even if she were a full wizard if she messed up a lot of people could get hurt. He asks her again not to mess with it because she lacks both training and experience to pull it off. Then she falls back on she is the same age he is and he has no right to chose for her what is right and what is wrong. As far as an informed decision, Harry did give her what she needed for that, to pull off that kind of circle is dangerous and should only be attempted by a full experienced wizard. Not sure what else he might have told her since she lied and refused to tell him exactly what she wanted the circle for.
--- Quote ---One more thing to realize is that Kim was not an official apprentice. It's made pretty clear that Harry helped Kim to work with her talents but she's not calling Harry her master or teacher. In fact, Kim talks to Harry like they're almost equals; that Harry is just someone who knows more lore than she does. Perhaps Harry's original error was not to formalize his teaching relationship with Kim from the very beginning. In this way he could have given her a more complete picture of the supernatural world, but done so with specific rules and a structure to operate within. In Harry's defense, he had never been part of a normal wizard/apprentice program and there's no indication that Ebenezer ever told Harry that one day he might have to teach someone else how to use their magic.
--- End quote ---
Or as my brother in law would say, she knows just enough to be dumb.. I don't think they had a relationship even close to master and apprentice. I reread the passage, they were friends, she knew he was a practicing wizard, she knew he was seeing some lean times, she charmed, lied and bribed him with a steak to get information... Harry's fault is he let himself be charmed and bribed, he agreed to give the information before he knew what it was that he was giving. When he realized it and how dangerous it was, he stopped, he couldn't tell her everything because it was against the rules of the Council, he did try to convey to her how dangerous it was for someone of her level of training to attempt. However she clearly has no respect for the level of training it took for Harry to be what he is. So everything he said fell on deaf ears.. If only she had told the truth, she might be alive today.. But as my old dad used to say, "if" is half of life..
--- Quote ---Martin was on the watch list, not Susan.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but Susan ran with Martin, most likely he knew about little Maggie and had a good idea who the father was... Lets not forget he was playing both sides and was the one who betrayed Susan.
Bad Alias:
As we're discussing Harry's moral responsibility, I think it would be useful for me to say where I think that responsibility comes from. One is responsible for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of his actions. Now we can all come up with wild consequences for mundane actions like choosing Restaurant A instead of Restaurant B, but just because we can foresee them doesn't mean they are reasonably foreseeable. A reasonably foreseeable consequence for such a choice is that I always eat things I shouldn't at the first restaurant but not the second, so I will get fat if I keep choosing the first one. It would not be reasonably foreseeable that going to the first restaurant would kick off a gang war because the gangs were having a meeting there and I wore the wrong color or something.
--- Quote from: Dina on March 16, 2020, 06:11:03 PM ---And, as I said, if I knew I am able to conceive and also have issues that could make me lost the control I would take pills, or have an intrauterine device or whatever could work in half-turned
--- End quote ---
The fear isn't that she is going to lose control and have unprotected sex. It's that she's going to lose control and eat someone. I don't think the specific circumstances that lead to Harry's apartment to become a sex dungeon were foreseeable.
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on March 16, 2020, 09:19:30 PM ---The thing with Kim Delaney was that Harry warned her there was danger in what she was asking, but he didn't tell her why it was dangerous.
--- End quote ---
But didn't he? He said she couldn't handle the spell at her current level and he would advise against it even if she could handle it because failure could kill a lot of people.
@Morris: I can see saying Harry bears responsibility for not breaking up with Susan after Fool Moon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that Harry told everyone that he was in charge and they had to listen to him. Harry told her to stay with the van. She ignored him for a story. From that, Harry could have known that Susan would ignore danger she had no business facing to get a story. (That's probably where Bianca got the idea to deliver the invite in front of Susan). Other than that, I don't think there is any reason to say Harry has any responsibility for Susan's actions in Grave Peril.
Also, I don't think Susan was willing to sleep with Harry for a story. I think she was willing to sleep with Harry, period. I think she was also willing to take abuse their relationship.
As to Kim, Harry didn't give her the greater circle. She copied it from MacFinn's. I'm pretty sure she would have tried it no matter what Harry did. If Harry has any responsibility for that one, I'd say it was instructing her at all, though we don't know enough about her talents to know what the risks of giving her no instruction at all were.
I'd say the responsibility split as between the two of them maxes out at something like 5/95 for Harry/Susan and .01/99.99 for Harry/Kim.
Dina:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on March 17, 2020, 04:48:56 AM ---The fear isn't that she is going to lose control and have unprotected sex. It's that she's going to lose control and eat someone. I don't think the specific circumstances that lead to Harry's apartment to become a sex dungeon were foreseeable.
--- End quote ---
Of course those circumstances were not foreseeable, but don't forget the rampire venom. It could be a plausible scenario for her to loose control, have sex with someone and then kill him or turn him. One thing does not imply that she cannot do the other first. And if she plans to stay chaste...even more reason to use birth control, as denying her biological urges would make her more vulnerable to a sudden snap (I mean, if she looses control, it is more difficult to stop herself if she has not relieved her urges in months)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version