The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Margaret and The Circle

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davidrcoop:
Just listening to Blood Rotes again. Thomas discussing how his mother was on the run after being involved in some bad business. Harry and Thomas have a brief chat of who?!, courts, council...

What’s the chance it was The Circle?! Would tie in with the competent, connected witch dropping out of magical life because these people are scary.

Also probably more important - are we accepting The Circle and The Black Council as the same thing?? Or is the Black Council the ‘wizard’ arm of The Circle.

Mira:

--- Quote from: davidrcoop on February 28, 2020, 07:07:28 PM ---Just listening to Blood Rotes again. Thomas discussing how his mother was on the run after being involved in some bad business. Harry and Thomas have a brief chat of who?!, courts, council...

What’s the chance it was The Circle?! Would tie in with the competent, connected witch dropping out of magical life because these people are scary.

Also probably more important - are we accepting The Circle and The Black Council as the same thing?? Or is the Black Council the ‘wizard’ arm of The Circle.

--- End quote ---

  I believe it has been established that The Circle and the Black Council are the same thing.  The Black Council is the name Harry came up for them, but I believe The Circle is what they call themselves.  I think we learned that in White Night from Cowl, but don't hold me to it.

g33k:

--- Quote from: Mira on February 28, 2020, 11:31:23 PM --- I believe it has been established that The Circle and the Black Council are the same thing.  The Black Council is the name Harry came up for them, but I believe The Circle is what they call themselves.  I think we learned that in White Night from Cowl, but don't hold me to it.
--- End quote ---

I think we only assume so, at this point; and you know what Harry likes to say about you and me...

I've seen a cogent argument that "the Circle" doesn't even exist -- that it's a figment fed to the credulous by Cowl.

Nothing has explicitly linked Peabody to any other operator; since he was competent enough to work undetected for so long, he could credibly be competent enough to be a "lone wolf," resentfully turned to black magic to become "the power behind the throne" since he was so despised (sometimes cordially) by the powers-that-be ON the throne.

Thorned Namshiel is only assumed to be the source of the Hellfire at Arctis Tor (though Mab semi-confirms it, by not denying it; but... FAERIES, god dammit...).

Furthermore, T.N. (or whoever was (or were, there may not have been just one Denarian; or any Denarian(s) -- Harry had Hellfire; maybe some other mortal wizard brought Hellfire to Arctis Tor) there) is only assumed to be collaborating with a larger Circle or Black Council.

The Hexenwulf belts, the overpowered stuff given to Sells & Kravos...

It's really all circumstantial.

One of the things we've heard repeatedly is that the Outsiders all work together, to their own singular agenda.  That kind of distributed-but-unified operation looks an awful lot like Harry's theoretical "Black Council..." might in fact be the only organized Black Council there is.

Mira:

--- Quote ---I think we only assume so, at this point; and you know what Harry likes to say about you and me...

--- End quote ---

   Now while there might be more than one,  we know that when Harry began to realize that something was going on, he began to call it "the Black Council," because it wasn't the White Council.  I believe that is what he told Eb when he was asked about it.  In other words he made the name up because it was easier to call them that rather than the enemy or the bad guys or whatever.  The Circle is a name that came from Cowl I believe, most likely not made up.  But  as you say till we know more, there might be more, then again they might be the same.  Harry's mistake might be that he is lumping them all together thus for him the Black Council and the Circle for the moment is interchangeable.

Snark Knight:

--- Quote from: g33k on February 29, 2020, 08:40:34 AM ---Thorned Namshiel is only assumed to be the source of the Hellfire at Arctis Tor (though Mab semi-confirms it, by not denying it; but... FAERIES, god dammit...).
Furthermore, T.N. (or whoever was (or were, there may not have been just one Denarian; or any Denarian(s) -- Harry had Hellfire; maybe some other mortal wizard brought Hellfire to Arctis Tor) there) is only assumed to be collaborating with a larger Circle or Black Council.

--- End quote ---

The suspect pool isn't that wide. Hellfire is limited to either full Denarians or those carrying a shadow, and spell-slingers are a minority among the thirty. Anduriel, Deirdre's partner, Magog, Ursiel and the cannon fodder from Small Favor don't seem to go for hellfire-powered offensive magic.

It wasn't Harry & Lash. It could pretty readily have been Namshiel, Tessa, Rosanna, or any combination of the three. Otherwise, there's an outside chance of Saluriel or a an unknown caster among the Church's unnamed prisoners having escaped and bonded with a host suitable for using hellfire. But that's pretty much the suspect pool.

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