The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Time Travel in the Dresden Files

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toodeep:

--- Quote from: g33k on February 28, 2020, 07:57:04 PM ---n.b. FIVE times.  5 = penta.

It's not just a ward, it's a temporal pentacle.

--- End quote ---

A pentacle is in only two dimensions.  Demonreaches' wards are constructed out of pentacles in at least three dimension - which means it is constructed like a 12 sided die where each face is a pentacle.

morriswalters:
What I'm trying to establish are the rules.  What both Bob and Vadderung describe as paradox is actually the breaking of cause and effect.

toodeep:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 01, 2020, 08:11:32 AM ---Interestingly, it is the state of being I think the Angels of the Dresden Files exist one (to varying degrees - I am unsure of how Denarians experience reality hampered as they are). Uriel doesn't necessarily need one million bodies/avatars (although I suppose he could do it that way) to be in one million different spots in space-time. He could potentially just exist in enough dimensions that it wouldn't be possible to measure him in all those places, limited as we are to 3 (or 4...there is debate). Jim sort of confirms this when he talks about how the Angels only show up as a whispered presence so they don't squish the sandbox, only inserting a tiny part of themselves into a point in reality. Which is probably the case with Ferrovax and the higher immortals, although who knows.
--- End quote ---

I think it is interesting to note that powerful beings like Mab warp impact the real world with their presence here, and thus often try to limit their presence on it.  More powerful beings like the Mothers really mess with the fabric of reality, making it dangerous for them to be here.  But maybe really, really powerful beings like Uriel don't seem to have that problem, because they only project the exact amount of power they need to, to this reality, to accomplish their current goal.  Dresden hasn't noted any of the reality warping around Uriel like he did around the Skinwalker, for example.

Yuillegan:
toodeep - I suspect Uriel's very delicate presence is probably due to him having the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. I think Angels of all tiers seem to have a unique understanding of reality, similar to the Agents in the Matrix. Without the deja vu stuff though. It's a reasonable comparison, with the Architect being TWG, Neo being the Son, Smith being the Devil and the Oracle being...something (Holy Spirit maybe if you like Catholic parallels). Jim himself even made a matrix reference when talking about what Ferrovax meant when he would "crush this pathetic gathering of monkey houses". Jim said what he meant was that he is so big reality has trouble containing him, that when he coughs reality bends around him like Neo.

I guess you could say that the really clued in beings don't see the illusion of the world, but the foundation behind it. Like the kid says "The spoon doesn't bend, you do. There is no spoon" or something like that (been a while since I saw the movie).

Uriel has been described as an Executive VP of Creation, and he himself seems to say that the "normal" rules don't really apply to him. Thresholds and circles have no effect on him, nor does time really. I think about it in the same way Dresden is highly unrefined with his magic, as opposed to the sheer brilliance and effectiveness of Merlin (in comparing something like the Naagloshii to an Angel - different scales in my book, but not different books altogether...those Angels might have nuked Grey after all).

Morris - I think we've covered most of them. Time is so fundamental to reality it does tie in with some high level stuff though. Jim once said if you have enough magic and a strong enough will, you could rewrite reality. All of the limits previously mentioned could be overcome then, if you had the juice and the will. Obviously humans are not in that order of course. My belief is that Dresden will have to change his mindset a bit in order to do some real Time Travel stuff, especially if he intends to change the past. In saying that, Vadderung may be hinting in Cold Days that future him will Time Travel.

Also I think as the pentacle was done if at least 4 dimensions, it would be more like a 16 sided die wouldn't it? Unless I miss your metaphor.

toodeep:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 02, 2020, 11:02:02 PM ---Also I think as the pentacle was done if at least 4 dimensions, it would be more like a 16 sided die wouldn't it? Unless I miss your metaphor.

--- End quote ---

I barely have the math skills to add and subtract dimensions when using circular coordinates. I have no idea how to do it with pentagons as the base units.  I was just saying that if you make a 3 dimensional form with pentagons it looks like a 12 sided die.  That might be want the magical "area" of demonreach looks like in our dimension.

As for the time travel bit, isn't there a WoJ out there that some of the slip ups in continuity aren't, which most have taken to be an indication of time travel changes - the thing I remember is the issue with Morty's house.  In the first book with him he's in the stucco house, then he's in a condo, then he's back in the stucco house.  That apparently is not a writing mistake.

I think Harry will time travel by going to "astral form" like he was in ghost story.  That way mass isn't a problem.  Then he will create a body in the time he goes to or do some other work around to make changes in the past that we've already observed.  Why do you think Mab was willing to wait for years for him - he had given her the heads up.

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