The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Faeries tithe to Hell
Mira:
--- Quote ---Uriel probably has a guest room at Arctis Tor. You rarely see Mab without tripping over Uriel. He starts the plot rolling in PG by moving Michael.
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't be shocked if that were so, let's not forget that he put a thumb on the scale by gifting Harry with Soul Fire in Small Favor.. I think it started way before that in Death Masks, it became clear that Harry is an asset that Heaven and Hell are fighting over, from Shiro willingly sacrificing himself to save Harry when Nic had him in his clutches to Nic tossing a selected coin in Harry's direction timing it so he'd be sure to pick it up without thinking to save little Harry.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 28, 2020, 06:00:23 AM --- Right, Hades is the god, parts of his kingdom is hell by our standards, those that need punishment suffer it eternally.
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The Greek underworld -- Hades' realm (sometimes the realm itself is also called "Hades") is unrelated to the Christian "Hell."
Lucifer/Satan, and the Denarians, are no part of that realm, nor it of them.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on February 28, 2020, 08:01:46 PM ---The Greek underworld -- Hades' realm (sometimes the realm itself is also called "Hades") is unrelated to the Christian "Hell."
Lucifer/Satan, and the Denarians, are no part of that realm, nor it of them.
--- End quote ---
True, it is unrelated but as I said while there are areas of Underworld or Hades that are very similar to what Christians would call heaven, there are also places where there is severe punishment as bad as any in the Christian Hell, for example Tantalas forced to draw water with a sieve never able to slake his thirst.. Another is getting his liver eaten by a bird of prey each day, then it grows back and it happens all over again, another is forced to roll a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again. In other words if Nic thought Deirdre would get off easier in the care of Hades than if she faced Judgement or if he convinced her that she would, both were very mistaken...
g33k:
--- Quote from: Con on February 28, 2020, 08:34:54 AM --- I mean one of the most confusing Fae plots there is in the books- which is saying something- is Mab and Titania opposing each other while the Denarians are running around in Small Favour...
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It's not just the Summer/Winter sub-plot that's puzzling.
The Denarian plot is aimed at the Archive. They take Marcone so Gard will get Dresden to invoke the Accords and call for an arbiter who will inevitably be the Archive.
I'm puzzled as to why Mab involved herself: if she hadn't sent Harry after Marcone, that whole "get to the Archive" sequence fails, but it's pretty clear that the snatch against Marcone -- if it succeeded in itself -- would be "legal" under the Accords, so... why does Mab even care, since it is legal??!? It only becomes an issue because Mab makes Harry her Emissary to recover Marcone, which is what leads to Gard getting Harry to invoke the Accords.
It appears that Mab and Vadderung are playing a game against the Denarians here; possibly this is where they loop-in Marcone, for the sting operation in Skin Game?
But this begs the question, how did Mab and/or Vadderung get sufficient intel (against the secretly-held plans of Denarians! those Fallen should know what it takes to keep their plans secret!) to figure out that Ivy was the target? It's that Denarian target of Ivy, that gives Mab the opportunity to get things rolling.
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Then there's the Summer/Winter thing ...
It could be no more than Mab doing her part in the anti-Nic plotting... then Summer acting (in an almost-automatic, reflexive manner) to thwart/oppose Winter... then Winter taking steps to counter Summer... move and counter-move; and the whole thing turning Harry into a Big Bad Wolf for the Gruffs to hand his ass back to him, and so on.
Or maybe it was something else. Honestly, I suspect (strongly suspect!) so. But I'm not sure what else, beyond the Mab+Odin anti-Nic plot above. I think I see Mab's angle. I don't see Titania's.
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--- Quote from: Con on February 28, 2020, 08:34:54 AM --- ... The Book also has direct Archangel power confirmation that Lucifer himself was acting in alliance with the Denarians ...
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Lucifer and the Denarians are all Fallen Angels. WoJ says Lucifer doesn't like or trust those particular Fallen, and (at least part of) the reason they're in the Coins is to keep them away from Lucifer and unable to plot effectively against him. But at the end of the day, they're all Fallen Angels; that's their "side."
--- Quote from: Con on February 28, 2020, 08:34:54 AM --- ... So there is atleast one significant occaision Mab and Lucifer. Fae and Hell. Working together.
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No...
Lucifer "helped" (that is to say, a massive Hellfire-fueled pentacle was used, from which Harry decides Lucifer must have been involved; but I suspect a Fallen-Angel / Wizard (such as Namshiel; or even a 5some of them) could have summoned and used that much Hellfire without aid from The Big L; so "maybe") to snatch Marcone, and capture the Archive.
But Mab acted in opposition, to undo those things. Not a Mab/Hell team-up at all!
Unless you're suggesting the whole operation was a shadow-show, staged for the benefit of (impact upon) Dresden, Marcone, & co...?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 28, 2020, 08:38:30 PM --- True, it is unrelated but as I said ...
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<heh>
I think you and I are essentially in agreement, and simply talking past the specific details of one anothers' specific points.
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