The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Harry's use of Black Magic

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kbrizzle:
Demonreach
I always thought the point of keeping Demonreach around was to use the prisoners for knowledge/ to power whatever spells the Warden feels is necessary. We have some inkling that Harry is going to use this power sometime in the future.

Mantles & the Ladies
Remember that Harry still had to kill Maeve on Halloween - my understanding from what Bob says in CD is that it wouldn’t take on any other day. While Bob might’ve just been talking about the mantle & it’s effect on it’s holder over time, remember that he was told that Maeve personally had to go not the Winter Lady mantle - he still believed that Maeve was an immortal.
This raises an interesting philosophical notion about mantles - if the holder is immortal, why is a mantle needed in the first place? Hades or Odin are not mantles & they are immortal, yet we know of several changes to the Sidhe royalty.

Black magic taint
I think the issue is that almost every wizard (especially the politically active/ combat type) has some level of black magic taint (agreed with Yuillegan that there are likely nuances) - perhaps managing to keep sane while performing black magic greatly reduces the taint? Cowl, Justin & Peabody were relatively sane where as the warlocks & Kemmlerites who ooze the stuff were noticeably less so. Or perhaps those who seek knowledge/ power from beyond the Outer Gates are also told of ways to minimize or disguise any such taint?

Yuillegan:
Morris, it might become your problem. If you bury a bunch of weapons in the desert, and a whole bunch of people (both good and bad) grab them, you can't really say not my problem when they come to your town.

Kbrizzle - Interesting idea about Demonreach. The most dangerous thing is that Harry has an army, or rather a menagerie perhaps, of monsters that he could send at anyone or free for power etc. But I don't see how it would power any spells that the Wardens use...apart from tapping into the Ley Line. But I believe Harry isn't yet able to do such a thing without being changed by it, or that is what Rashid believes. But I don't believe Demonreach was created to be a power source as its sole purpose...I don't think Merlin was that bad. But it is possible.

I think it is an assumption that Hades and Odin are immortal intrinsically. They could well be wearing mantles that allow that. We just don't know enough. I suppose that's true, Harry's mission was to kill Maeve. It wasn't to destroy the Mantle of the Winter Lady. Different tasks. But Maeve isn't intrinsically immortal any more than any other Fae. Lily could only be killed on Halloween, same with Maeve. But it was the Mantles they wore that provided that immortality. Hence why Molly is immortal now, and why Lily became so, and Maeve and Mab for that matter. Mab was mortal once, she even says it.

My guess about the differences between Gods and Sidhe Queens is probably to do with how the Queens were created and why. And what role the Gods originally had and how they came into being. The origins of the Erlking and Hecate provide some hint to this. And Vadderung hints to their purpose. Thomas outright says they existed to help mortals survive the old demons early on in humanity's history.

Your initial idea about Demonreach gave me an idea about black magic. Rashid actually implies that one day Dresden will be able to tap the extremely dark energy of Demonreach without being changed by it. Which says to me that over time a user could develop a natural resistance to black magic taint..and not necessarily need a Blackstaff. Perhaps even Rashid has experienced this. So I think your very close to the answer - it either is that like a immunity, exposure at "safe" levels makes you more resistant OR that there are ways of hiding the effects and perhaps Outsiders are linked to that. 

Arjan:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on February 25, 2020, 11:33:52 PM ---Arjan, I think it's a lot more grey than that. I don't think it is so black and white as if you use too much you are a Warlock. The Council has definitions that don't necessarily match up with the universe's. Jim said something about that when people asked him about the Laws of Magic.

--- End quote ---
The council's laws are rough approximations which is inevitable because though black and white exist there is also a world of grays. But being a warlock does not necessarily mean you are a compulsive idiot solving all your problems with black magic without any insight in your situation.

It depends on your definition of warlock. The council would say that everyone who broke the laws is a warlock. That keeps things simple. All other definitions have grey areas build into them.

If you keep it more vague the term warlock tells you what you can expect from someone. It tells you something about his nature that can be changed using free will but so few people do.

The use of magic, not just law breaking magic, is strongly based on your nature and free willed choices to use your magic have a strong influence on your nature. The laws of magic shape the wizards believing in it. Lucio did not use magic to kill LaFortier because she could not even in the state she was in.

Black magic is said to be addictive so that has to be taken into account.

In that sense Harry is still a warlock, his barriers from using black magic are too low, he has to be carefull. But he tries not to use it and he is quite successful at that. In that sense he is not. If you trust him that is.

Grevaine was unhinged but he knew what he was doing and Cowl was actually avoiding breaking the laws if he did not think it necessary. But cowl is an outsider agent and that influence can disturb the picture. The same for Peabody.

That terminal state of crazyness the korean boy was in is not the only type of warlock and just the least dangerous one. 



 

morriswalters:
I should give up humor.  The point, such that it was one, was in the plot to free the prisoners at Demonreach. Had they succeeded it would have set off the Banefire on Halloween. Bob's rule for immortals means that it would have permanently killed the inmates.(Including Maeve and Lily)  Yet Harry implies otherwise.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: morriswalters on February 26, 2020, 11:29:47 AM ---I should give up humor.  The point, such that it was one, was in the plot to free the prisoners at Demonreach. Had they succeeded it would have set off the Banefire on Halloween. Bob's rule for immortals means that it would have permanently killed the inmates.(Including Maeve and Lily)  Yet Harry implies otherwise.

--- End quote ---
It would have killed the inmates but their mantles would find new hosts. The energy would find new ways to express. It would have taken them some time though to get back to their previous power and experience.

But that is why they are locked up. That buys even more time.

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