The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry's use of Black Magic
Yuillegan:
Mira, I appreciate the theory. I do. But it isn't fact, at least not yet. It doesn't say or give any indication in the text that Mab controlled Murphy in that scene, in that moment. And as far as I am aware there is no WOJ to support it either.
I do feel Jim could have explained better why after everyone being frozen there was no numbness and no damage to the firearm. But Arjan's explanation is as good as any here - it could well have been magical ice, or perhaps Mab removed the numbness.
Arjan is right -In Summer Knight Mab says this when controlling Dresden to make him stab himself with a letter opener
--- Quote ---"Wizard, you know as well as I. Were you not bound to me, I would have no such power over you." At that moment, most of what I knew was that my hand hurt, but some dim part of me realized she was telling the truth. Faeries don't just get to ride in and play puppet master. You have to let them in. I'd let my godmother, Lea, in years before, when I was younger, dumber.
--- End quote ---
Summer Knight, ch 2, pg 20
And Bob explains it:
--- Quote ---I frowned. "Hang on a minute. You mean that the Queens can't personally gun down anyone who isn't in their Court?"
"Not unless the target does something stupid like make an open-ended bargain without even trying to
trade a baby for—"
"Off topic, Bob. Do I or don't I have to worry about getting killed this time around?"
"Of course you do," Bob said in a cheerful tone. "It just means that the Queen isn't allowed to actually, personally end your life. They could, however, trick you into walking into quicksand and watch you drown, turn you into a stag and set the hounds after you, bind you into an enchanted sleep for a few hundred years, that kind of thing."
--- End quote ---
Summer Knight, ch 10, pg80
Queens can't just come in and play puppet master, they need a channel. A specific type of bargain with the person. Murphy didn't have that, so no possible way Mab could have done it - unless she made a bargain with Murphy off screen. But I really highly doubt it. Especially since as Lea points out to Michael, once they hold a Sword of the Cross they can shatter a compact easily enough. So it wouldn't be a sound long-term deal.
The thing is that Mab didn't need to pull the trigger anyway. She gave Murphy the freedom to act, she knew Murphy would do it. It would have been redundant.
The whole reason I would have been shocked, as I said, would be that it invalidates most of the story and Harry's mission. While she was pragmatic enough to accept she had to order her daughter's death, she couldn't be the one to plunge the knife in herself. She always has had the power but couldn't actually do it herself. Mother Winter confirms this when she says Mab is too much the romantic. Which probably tells you that if Mother Winter wanted to kill a Queen, they would just die.
As for Sarissa and Mab's hang outs, I always put that less down to bonding (at least on Mab's end) and more her learning about mortals. But I can understand it might not be that way, or that people might not see it like that. Mab certainly wouldn't be the type to hug or say I love you, so I suspect the closest she could do was spend time with her daughters and teach them as best she could. As Leah points out, that is a incredible gift "the dissemination of power from one generation to the next" which when you consider what Mab can teach them...is invaluable. I do imagine Maeve was the daughter who got the harsher training, which made her tougher (as befit her role, Mab wanted her daughter to be successful/survive - in her eyes the best thing she could do for her...talk about being cruel to be kind...). I expect she resented that Sarissa got the much softer and perhaps more enjoyable treatment (and freedom, as morris points out). But I don't think Sarissa was the favorite initially necessarily. Mab had to treat each child differently, based on their circumstances. Like most parents, Mab quite probably thought she was doing the best she could by them.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on February 23, 2020, 06:13:13 PM ---Mab would not agree. Karen was not in Mab’s service. Mab just made it accidentally possible for Karen to do what she wanted to do anyway by removing bounds her daughter should not have placed anyway.
--- End quote ---
That was no accident... Lily was dead so her mantle went to Sarissa... Maeve didn't know about Molly, but Mab did...
--- Quote ---I'm sure Karrin would have mentioned that her hands moved by themselves when Harry spoke to her afterwards. She didn't. As to the "What just happened?", Karrin was referring to the weird light that flew out of Maeve and went into Molly, rendering her unconscious:
--- End quote ---
Would she? She had just witness what happened when Lily died and her mantle moved to Sarissa..
If it wasn't Mab who killed Maeve, why did Harry ask her this question?
page 503 Cold Days..
--- Quote ---"Was it hard for you to kill Maeve?
--- End quote ---
He didn't ask if it was hard for her to watch Murphy do it... Nor did he ask if was hard to turn Murphy loose so she could accidently kill Maeve.. It was a direct question to Mab, "Was it hard for you to kill Maeve?"
It was Halloween, so maybe the rules change for Queens wanting to kill their daughters that need killing? Maybe Mab used a loop hole, [something she is good at by the way and why you do not
bargain with the Fae] if she manipulated Murphy's hands, technically it wasn't her... Harry knows
who killed Maeve, that is who he addressed his question to, Mab.. I repeat, "Was it hard for you to kill Maeve?"
Yuillegan:
I think you're reading that a bit literally.
If you order someone's death, you a still guilty of conspiracy to murder. Just because you don't pull the trigger yourself doesn't make that any less terrible.
Jim's writing could have been clearer I suppose. He could have written "Was it hard for you to allow Maeve to be killed?". Which would have been more clear and more obvious. But writing isn't really about that. It is much more about being real. When you construct dialogue it is just as much for the benefit of the reader to understand it logically as to connect to them, emotionally. Readers won't believe a scene if the dialogue doesn't feel natural. You'll also notice that Mab doesn't answer that question directly. She answers "I was mortal once, you know". While she is implying that she still feels enough of her old mortal self to care, to feel loss and grief and rage and pain, she doesn't actually agree that she pulled the trigger. So if we take her literally, and read sentences that literally, then you certainly cannot say she did kill Maeve.
In fact Harry initially asks "Was it hard for you? Tonight?" and she just can't answer. He then says "“Even tonight, with everything going to hell, you couldn’t hurt her,” . Which to me says implies that despite it all, she couldn't be the one to pull the trigger herself. She still needed an agent to act for her. Harry was her initial agent and just like with Aurora, his agent acted for him. I suppose you could think of it as Harry being Mab's weapon, and Murphy being his.
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---If it wasn't Mab who killed Maeve, why did Harry ask her this question?
--- End quote ---
Of course Mab killed Maeve. She sent her Knight to carry out her will as his Queen. You were given the Mab's law in the first chapter.
--- Quote ---Blood may not be spilled upon the floor of the Court without the Queens express command.
--- End quote ---
Maeve died in the first chapter. She just didn't quit breathing until there on Demonreach.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on February 24, 2020, 01:44:14 AM ---Of course Mab killed Maeve. She sent her Knight to carry out her will as his Queen. You were given the Mab's law in the first chapter.Maeve died in the first chapter. She just didn't quit breathing until there on Demonreach.
--- End quote ---
It is not about that. Mab ordered, manipulated, enabled.
But she did not use Karen as a puppet. She can not.
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