The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Peace talks excerpt indications
morriswalters:
I once posted that Harry wasn't really human since a human life span is much shorter. Nobody liked that.
And it seems that people are implying that you can use the product of evil to do good and that it makes it OK. If you want a good look at how that plays out in the world you should look at the results of human experimentation in WW2.
The thing is that the ritual that was used to kill the Reds was evil, that it blew up in their face doesn't change that. And Harry deliberately pushed Susan over the edge knowing what she would do. She didn't give her consent though she might have if Harry had asked. But Harry didn't ask. It makes for good drama but poor ethics.
Now look at the parallelism between what the Fallen did to Harry and what Harry did to Susan. I believe this is intentional on Jim's part.
Avernite:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 11, 2020, 05:28:05 PM ---I once posted that Harry wasn't really human since a human life span is much shorter. Nobody liked that.
And it seems that people are implying that you can use the product of evil to do good and that it makes it OK. If you want a good look at how that plays out in the world you should look at the results of human experimentation in WW2.
The thing is that the ritual that was used to kill the Reds was evil, that it blew up in their face doesn't change that. And Harry deliberately pushed Susan over the edge knowing what she would do. She didn't give her consent though she might have if Harry had asked. But Harry didn't ask. It makes for good drama but poor ethics.
Now look at the parallelism between what the Fallen did to Harry and what Harry did to Susan. I believe this is intentional on Jim's part.
--- End quote ---
Harry killed a RCV with a knife. He admittedly tricked Susan into being that RCV, which is no doubt a stain on his soul (though he saved her daughter in the process so not too sure how thick a stain), but that's what he did.
He did not deploy black magic; the magic was externalized into a ritual, the human sacrifice part of it was done by the Court, and turned back upon them in karmic justice. Harry did not engage in any black magic.
And his hand in the magic destroyed a whole nation of monsters, so even if any splashed on him, it should be the cleansing rage of heaven, not the blackening fury of hell. An Archangel had, after all, pronounced Judgment Almighty on the Red Court, and the Almighty does not shy away from mass destruction if it's warranted.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Avernite on April 11, 2020, 06:58:04 PM ---Harry killed a RCV with a knife. He admittedly tricked Susan into being that RCV, which is no doubt a stain on his soul (though he saved her daughter in the process so not too sure how thick a stain), but that's what he did.
He did not deploy black magic; the magic was externalized into a ritual, the human sacrifice part of it was done by the Court, and turned back upon them in karmic justice. Harry did not engage in any black magic.
And his hand in the magic destroyed a whole nation of monsters, so even if any splashed on him, it should be the cleansing rage of heaven, not the blackening fury of hell. An Archangel had, after all, pronounced Judgment Almighty on the Red Court, and the Almighty does not shy away from mass destruction if it's warranted.
--- End quote ---
Ik is OK because an archangle said it was OK?
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 11, 2020, 05:28:05 PM ---I once posted that Harry wasn't really human since a human life span is much shorter. Nobody liked that.
--- End quote ---
Biologically they are all human. They breed with humans and produce fertile offspring. There is no clear definition in the dresdenverse about who is human an who is not.
Being human in the dresdenverse is more about
* Do you self identify as a human?
* Do other humans accept you as a human?
* Do other non humans identify you as a human?
--- Quote ---And it seems that people are implying that you can use the product of evil to do good and that it makes it OK.
--- End quote ---
Apart from Harry triggering Susan, and maybe even that, I see this as a big trolley problem except that on one track are only monsters. It would be different if Harry actually could have stopped it but that was not possible.
Of course that is if you exclude magic from the equation. If you take that ib=nto account the big thing is to what extend Harry actually touched that power. We have no idea but it might have been not that different from what Harry tried to do in proven guilty, sending a summoned creature back to the summoner which was standard council procedure.
--- Quote ---If you want a good look at how that plays out in the world you should look at the results of human experimentation in WW2.
The thing is that the ritual that was used to kill the Reds was evil, that it blew up in their face doesn't change that. And Harry deliberately pushed Susan over the edge knowing what she would do. She didn't give her consent though she might have if Harry had asked. But Harry didn't ask. It makes for good drama but poor ethics.
Now look at the parallelism between what the Fallen did to Harry and what Harry did to Susan. I believe this is intentional on Jim's part.
--- End quote ---
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Avernite on April 11, 2020, 06:58:04 PM ---Harry killed a RCV with a knife. He admittedly tricked Susan into being that RCV, which is no doubt a stain on his soul (though he saved her daughter in the process so not too sure how thick a stain), but that's what he did.
He did not deploy black magic; the magic was externalized into a ritual, the human sacrifice part of it was done by the Court, and turned back upon them in karmic justice. Harry did not engage in any black magic.
And his hand in the magic destroyed a whole nation of monsters, so even if any splashed on him, it should be the cleansing rage of heaven, not the blackening fury of hell. An Archangel had, after all, pronounced Judgment Almighty on the Red Court, and the Almighty does not shy away from mass destruction if it's warranted.
--- End quote ---
The Archangel took he sweet time getting his vengeance on. He was a thousand years slow. And I never said anything about a stain. I said the ritual was evil. And I asked if using an evil tool was in itself evil. And the problem with Susan isn't that he killed her, it's that he used her without giving her a chance to choose, or to use that bogey man that everyone loves so much here, he denied her the Choice.
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