Well... I'm not actually attached to "reject," and can work with "resist" for purposes of the conversation. But I'm going by the dictionary, and by my reading of the books:
- Merriam-Webster: "to refuse to accept, consider, submit to, take for some purpose, or use" (example of use: "reject the suggestion")
- Cambridge English Dictionary (rejection): "the act of refusing to accept, use, or believe someone or something"
- I'd check the OED, but it seems to be paywalled.
Well for a start, Merriam-Webster...I won't get into it but wouldn't start using it in academia is all I am saying.
But those definitions sort of prove my point. Harry
did use, and consider using, Lash/Lasciel. He also believed her on several occasions. I am not, nor I think is anyone, saying that he didn't reject her influence most of the time. But completely reject her whole self? No, he never did that. He Chose to keep his power. He Chose to wrestle with her in his mind. Now whether that is good or evil or anything else is impossible to know really. But it does say a lot about Dresden, both good and bad. At the very least, it smacks of arrogance. Most people would do everything in their power to rid themselves of demonic influence, or embrace it. But Harry chose to believe his willpower (as Mira rightly points out) was so incredible that he could do what few others could. Now he may have been partially right, but a more humble person even if they had Harry's willpower or greater more likely would have gone for help and made the sacrifice in order to be free.
I think these are pretty spot-on for the vast majority of Harry-v-Lash interactions. He didn't reject everything, in every situation. But he rejected the overwhelming majority of them, and ALWAYS rejected the option of taking up the Coin. There's a kinda-sorta exception for Hellfire -- Lash snuck it into his magic without Harry even understanding it, and (AFAICT) he wasn't ABLE to use his magic without invoking Hellfire; true, he could have abandoned magic... but we know he won't give up his magic, it's too much a part of his identity.
edit: I don't think the eidetic-memory thing counts, exactly. That's a human thing, and it was running on Harry's brain, so Harry was just using his own brain's capacity in a way he hadn't previously been able to. OTOH, I've got to grant the ancient languages thing -- Ghoul, Whamp-Etruscan, etc.
I agree it is exceptional that he didn't take up the Coin. I also think if he had, he wouldn't have resisted or rejected Lasciel for nearly as long as Lash. Lash was just a shadow. The real deal would have been much worse, and Harry knew it.
But I don't think she snuck the magic in there. That would violate Free Will. Harry accepted that, even chose to access it even if he didn't entirely understand what he was doing. It may not have been an informed choice but there was a choice. Him choosing to not give up his magic is also a choice, regardless of his identity. He had the option.
But as we know, the Fallen don't really give their hosts *more* magical power, just unlock what is in them by feeding their vices. Which annoys me, because it didn't always seem like that in the series but the latest book basically says that (when Harry and Hannah are talking during their duel). And it doesn't explain really how their combat forms or Anduriel's shadow magic work...unless it sort of is like the Alphas in that they know a sort of spell just for that.
So the argument that the photographic memory is"just" a human thing doesn't really work...as essentially everything the Fallen "grant" is really just unlocking the potential in the human. In fact - it almost seems that is exactly how those sort of power-ups work. The Winter Knight mantle exactly. Unless you trade in your mortal/human nature and become an entirely supernatural creature. I think the language thing was Harry accessing Lasciel's knowledge. Harry never really knew that language, he was just borrowing her mind. In terms of mechanics.
Later on, I think he was able to use more (or less) depending on what he wanted; but I'm unclear that he was EVER able to stop using it, until Lash finally gave up (and sacrificed herself).
He did choose to pick up the coin, and he owned up to that Choice as a meaningful and bad one. In other words, he repented, and tried to atone.
Lash infected his magic with her Hellfire; NOT his choice. He realized what had happened, but didn't know how to fix it.
I mean, sure. He was able to control it once he figured out it was happening. Which is still choosing to use it. There is of course an obvious way to stop using Hellfire - don't use magic. Pretty simple.
But it WAS his choice. He chose to touch the coin, he chose to access Lash, his choices led him to Hellfire. No way around it. He could have not cast spells, not touched the coin, not accessed Lash. But he did. Unfortunately, in Butcher's world, that counts as a choice. A compromised one, but no less a defined choice.
And not so sure that he repented. He felt bad. He regretted it. But he never really asked for atonement. He tried to rectify his mistake, but he didn't try everything. And when Michael gave him his only real option, he chose not to take it. He got "lucky" that Lash committed suicide (assuming it was pure chance that she "died"...and his influence changing her helped create that "luck")
As for his choice to use Hellfire "letting her" talk to him? I think that was a classic Fallen Lie! Here's my logic:
- Lasciel's Shadow makes this claim in chapter 25, as Harry is dreaming. "You made the conscious choice" to use Hellfire earlier that day, "and as a result, I can now appear to your conscious mind." Please note, it's his dreaming mind, not his conscious mind; so already a lie.
- Where did he use it? It was in chapter 17, when Harry used Hellfire (specifically and intentionally) to bolster his mental defenses against Corpsetaker's assault. I don't think he was ABLE to keep Hellfire out of his Fuego (and sometimes Forzare) magic, so he wasn't -- quite -- "choosing" to use it there.
- But in chapter 16, and the prior day in chapter 7 (both occurring before his fight with Corpsetaker) Harry had quite extensive interactions with Sheila... and that was his conscious mind!
So I conclude that the Shadow was able to contact him whenever it wanted, and chose its own time and manner.
Well maybe it was a lie, but where was the angelic intervention to balance the scales? That is precisely what Uriel's job, and his department is for.
But I don't think it was. For a start, if we start assuming dreams are "lies" then Malcolm Dresden in Harry's dream was a lie. Which I think has been confirmed that it wasn't. But just because something happens in your head doesn't make it not real. Your head is precisely where you filter and process all the information your body receives. And Lash was referring to the fact that he was able to have a conversation with her at all. Before that she was in his subconscious. She isn't talking about his state of being asleep or awake.
The choice to use Hellfire was made earlier than that. He made it when he chose to touch that coin. Like entering a room full of high-levels of radiation, you are not choosing for it to poison you or enter your system, but by choosing to enter that room you have accepted that your environment may change and it may not be the same as the room you left - whether or not you know the room is full of radiation. And again, he could also have chosen to not use magic. He could have fought, and probably died, as a mortal.
Shiela was the product of him picking up Lasciel's coin. He accepted that outcome by touching it. He may not have been aware it would happen like that, but that doesn't change that he put himself in a situation where he thought he had to pick up the coin. The whole series, especially in the latest few books, is about how a mortal creates it's own reality through the choices that it makes.
Apologies if I was unclear! I wasn't talking about surrendering the Coin. I was talking about the Shadow: The "unparalleled feat" was operating for so long with the Shadow trying to convince him, neither taking up the Coin nor turning it over and renouncing his powers.
Nobody had ever done that.
Fair enough, I did misunderstand you there. Although it doesn't prove it was unparalleled. Just unheard of and rare.
Yes, we know the Church's records are incomplete, but they're extensive; and there was no hint in them. Nicodemus was confident enough that the Shadow could control Harry that he turned his back on Harry at a critical moment; an extraordinary error neither Nic nor Anduriel would've made, if either thought it possible for Harry to be free.
Actually that is a essentially a false position (on the part of the Church). They
believe that their records are extensive. But how would they know what they don't know? Depending on how thoroughly Nic wipes the records, and who he has eliminated with that knowledge, they might have no idea how much they are missing. Think about when Mab messed with Harry's mind and removed his knowledge of fire magic and took his blasting rod, or when Molly wiped the memory of planning his suicide. Harry didn't even know what he was missing, or what had happened. Who knows what else has happened in his head.
Nicodemus is arrogant. Like many of Harry's foes, he has constantly underestimated Dresden's want to be "good". They also underestimate Harry's willpower and strength. Because they are not like him, because so few are, they fail to really understand his deeper nature. And it becomes their downfall. This is a key part of the series. Nicodemus, and those like him, truly believe everyone else is as bad as they are and will succumb to evil because they themselves failed the test.
I admit I do find it curious that Anduriel didn't intervene
at all during the fight in Small Favor. But I have a theory. Whether Anduriel believed Lash, or Lasciel, wasn't present at all doesn't really matter. I think the Denarian-Fallen are like the One Ring. They betray their charges when it suits them, perhaps when they need them most. I think the Denarian-Fallen are the same plot device as the Rings of Power, specifically like the Nine Rings, in Lord of the Rings. Jim is a BIG Lord of the Rings fan. From a narrative and story crafting perspective, they essentially function the same way. I think Anduriel chose not to help Nicodemus, as the truth is all of the Fallen despise mortals for having the totally Free Will that they were denied. I think Anduriel doesn't really like working with Nicodemus really, it is just convenience. What is 2000 years to a being older than the universe? A blink of an eye. And yet they are so limited that I think they are much more angry than the Fallen in Hell, perhaps for other reasons not clear. Lucifer seemed to think that those 30 Fallen were the most likely to stab him in the back. Perhaps they are nihilists.
Finally, we have Lash's testimony herself, in White Night. This is the book where the Shadow is finally shaken and doubtful, where Harry's influence is becoming clear, and ultimately (in chater 41) sacrifices herself for Harry. But in chapter 34, she admits it...
Harry: "How many shadows like you have ever stayed in a host like me for more than a few weeks, huh? Longer than three years?"
Lash: "Never."
So this is everything Lasciel knows -- all of her own prior Shadows, plus all cases of every other Denarian Shadows that she knows of. Was she lying? Maybe (it's hard to tell with the Fallen!). But I think not: all she had to do, to undermine Harry's confidence and bolster her own argument, was to coolly claim it was "unusual, but hardly rare" (or some such). Instead, this chapter shows us Lash being uncertain, struggling to resist HARRY'S suasion, and generally speaking frankly with him. Why would she lie in such a way as to strengthen Harry's will to resist & weaken her own arguments?
Oh I don't think she was lying. I think no one had ever resisted her for so long. That hurt her pride, her ego. I mean she is known for her ability to tempt, even amongst the Fallen.
But she could have been wrong. We only know about the Denarian-Fallen. We know very little about the Fallen that are in Hell. Harry possibly did resist her longer than any other victim. But did he resist longer than an other mortal to any of the other Fallen, Denarian-bound or otherwise? Who can say. There is only scant info for 2000 years. And one more thing, if she really was a good temptress, that whole scene actually feeds
Harry's ego and she should have known it. If she did all that to convince him that he won, he might actually let his guard down. But that's another theory.
Mira - quite right. Harry did underestimate the Coins. And he is arrogant enough to believe that he could do it on his own, and that if he didn't he was morally weak. Michael even chastises him of this at the end of Cold Days (about his deal with Mab). I believe Thomas made a similar point at one stage, reminding Harry that even though he (thomas) is himself a monster but he manages it. Harry has a pathological need to believe he is morally good, and he must prove it to himself. Anything less, to his mind, makes him evil. Which is absurd. He sets a higher standard for himself than is reasonable, and if he falls short he allows that to be an excuse for acting out.
Well, I think the Angels might disagree with your interpretation of accepting the coin. Reread that scene with the Angel of Death. Your choices, however uniformed, are yours alone. Magic seems to work the same, see the whole thing about consequences of using magic are more important than intentions. Jim wrote a whole thing on it.
But yes, he didn't keep it. So he resisted. But he wouldn't have forever. if Mab hadn't been able to help, he would have take up Lasciel or another Coin.
