The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Proven Guilty final iteration.

(1/5) > >>

morriswalters:
How did the Gatekeeper know that Molly had been using Black Magic?
Because he's been watching Chicago for Mab.  How do we know he can do something like that.  Jim tells you by what he does at the end of the trial, just before the team blows in with the newbee's.  He watches the running fight involving Eb and the other Council members.

Why is she watching?
Because Lea had been watching and protecting Harry, and Mab had confined Lea.

How is she watching or the Gatekeeper watching?
He or she are using the magic of the Outer Gates.

How did she know of Little Chicago and the fact that it was broken?
The Mothers told her.  As when Harry learned the name of the Adversary, the act of Harry dying in the first use spawns darker futures.  This may work for Mab.

Why was Pell attacked?
To clear the way for Harry to come to Arctis Tor. And to Bring Harry in.

Why have Harry come to Arctis Tor?
To see Lea and Slate and the after effects of the Black Council attack and to sus out a traitor among Winter. It explains why she didn't declare war on the Red Court after the events of Dead Beat. She has decided that Harry must be the next Winter Knight and recognizes the attack on Molly as a ploy to put Harry at war with the White Council, which would result in his death.  Bringing Molly to Arctis Tor gives her an opportunity to control the encounter.

Why did the Black Council attack?
To force Winter to defend the border. Since with Lea and Slade on ice, Mab is weak, she must remain in the fortress to protect the Wellspring, while her forces guard the border.  This allows the Red's to attack within faerie with impunity during and after the events of Dead Beat.  Mother Summer tells you why she has her troops at the border.  Jim obfuscates the time of attack since Dead Beat was originally to be published after Proven Guilty.

Who attacked Pell?
Mab causes Pell to be attacked, which causes Molly's boyfriend Nelson to get locked up. We can infer this because they target Pell and no one else, and no one is killed. Had Pell died Nelson couldn't have gotten bail and Harry wouldn't have been needed. Since Molly is estranged from her parents, she has no one else to call to get help for Nelson but Harry.  This is all a distraction to keep Harry from using Little Chicago too soon.  It also points him towards Nelson and Molly.

Who did the second attack?
Maybe Maeve.  She uses similar magic against Slate in Summer Knight.  It may have been an attempt to kill Sandra Marling as a cutout.  Marling  may have been the person running from the room.  She also gets Molly away from the con before the third attack. And it may be that she sent the Scarecrow after Glau for a similar reason.

Who did the third attack? 
Maeve.  This was the money attack which had been planned from the start.  This was to call the attention of the White Council to Molly.  It is important to know here that the lights are killed mechanically.  It's dark but there is no myrk.  Maeve had to send them through, since Molly as the beacon, was no longer there.  Harry's spell sent them to Molly.  I speculate that Sandra Marling rigged the lights before she split.

Who is Sandra Marling?
Goodman Grey.  Why.  Because I like him.



Bad Alias:
I don't see why the Outer Gates would be some remote viewing device. I don't know why this is even an idea, let alone a somewhat popular one around here.

We do know the Gatekeeper is super mysterious, even to others on the Supreme Council, and that he can do some remote observing and future predicting. We've seen him predict the future in Turn Coat, and it was a different future than he had predicted before Harry either conducted the sanctum ritual or stepped on the island. (We don't know when he made his first prediction that if Harry stood up to the Council he would die). In Summer Knight, he told Harry that he hadn't been watching him so much as, if I recall correctly, listening to him.

morriswalters:
In Cold Days when discussing the Gates with Rashid, Harry says its a CAT scanner for Outsiders, and Rashid responds, 'Among many other things'.  It appears to be the device in the book around which everything is built.

Rashid is the international man of mystery.  One who can do the impossible and can locate Black Magic.  Not to mention Harry, at will.  Something Mab is able to do as well. 

I also think it is the means used in Cold Days to shut down the border of faerie to portals.  In Proven Guilty during Molly's trial  Rashid appears to keep track of the running fight between Eb and the others as they progress towards Chicago and his eye is linked to the Gate.  And Mab watches as Marcone is kidnapped in Small Favor, and Gard can sense her watching.

And my new WAG reflects the alternate explanation given to Harry about the events by Michael.

Yuillegan:
An interesting WAG.

I am not sure whether the Gates are a "remote viewing device" per se...I suspect their real use is to do with the Greater Multiverse. My theory is, like Lovecraft's silver gate to the multiverse, the crystal material of the Gates, the Gatekeepers eye etc. is connected to the very fabric of reality. This allows certain beings to see into the various universes, and therefore alternate and parallel timelines. This allows the Gatekeeper (and perhaps Mab and particularly the Mothers) to "see" what is going on, before it is going to happen. It is not logical that all universes are in sync and are at the same point in history. Time as we know (especially in the Dresden Files) is linear to a human perspective. So realistically this knowledge allows them to interpret the most likely version of an event about to happen, in order to take actions. And I believe Vadderung has still some of this ability (although not as much as he probably used to...I think there is a reasonable argument that it is implied that he once wore the Gatekeeper eye).

Basically, less "see" other points in space in Dresden's universe and more "see" other universes that are/have happening(ed) and infer what might happen in "their" universe. Complicated I know, but spacetime and multiverses are by their very nature stupidly complex.

Now onto your other points.

Perhaps the Gates are the mechanism to close the borders - it fits as well as anything. They are on some of the borders of Faerie (but of course not on the border that is shared with Summer. But one wonders if Faerie isn't so much split into North and South for example (with let's say Winter in the North and Summer in the South) but actually the territory of Winter surrounding the centre of Faerie (which is Summer's territory). And presumably in the No Mans Land inbetween the territories is the realms of the Wyld Fae. This would make more sense if all the Borders of Faerie touch the Outside and therefore have walls etc. But then perhaps, maybe not as well. It would be nice to have a vague map. We have to assume where Dresden visited was in Winter's territory, which of course still makes it interesting that Mother Summer was there but then again those two don't really play by the regular Rules. Of course, if the Outer Wall does not surround ALL of Faerie and therefore Summer has a border with some other part of the Never-never or the mortal world, then how did Mab close all the Borders using the mechanism of the Gate? Food for thought.

1. Rashid may or may not have been remote viewing. Just as likely, if not more so, he was seeing several possible futures become one clear future and acted upon that information.
2. The why makes sense though, so fair enough.
3. See main argument above.
4. THIS. I find it very interesting that Mab kept Harry alive. Mab is Mother Winter's "daughter". She would think along similar lines - consider that scene in Cold Days about "too many bright ones [futures]". I think Harry's involvement with Mab serves to create much darker timelines, provided Harry doesn't mess up those plans ;) We also must consider that old WOJ about Titania being nervous about Harry, and Mab keeping her enemies closer. Harry's role may not be her traditional friend. All that Starborn stuff.
5. Good enough for me, although don't be so quick to discount that this book was just as much about bringing MOLLY into Arctis Tor. She was being set up as one of their agents for a long time. Maybe for their benefit, maybe for Michael's punishment for crossing Winter, maybe other reasons. Probably all of them knowing Mab.
6. Yeah pretty sound. But see above.
7. Very interesting idea. The Time obfuscation makes sense here. However, I am not so sure that this was their only motive. Whilst I truly doubt they thought they could kill Mab, perhaps they thought they could wound her. More likely though, I think they were gunning for Leah and maybe even the knife. Why? Perhaps there was some great future value and they did not wish to lose an asset so recently gained. This was one of the boldest attacks, right at the heart of Winter's power. Although as the attack in Cold Days showed, they like to hit multiple fronts to create chaos and stretch resources. So quite possibly, this was a distraction to some other terrifying attack. Or, as the books seem to imply (if not state outright), Winter's forces kept near the borders (both the Shared Border and the Outer Gates) meant there was only an honour guard to protect Mab and her assets at Arctis Tor. And yes, this also gave the Reds mostly uninhibited access through Faerie.
8. I think this was explained as a fetch, and yes quite probably on Mab's orders. And I agree Pell survived otherwise the book doesn't work. Intersting, perhaps it does help distract from Little Chicago.
9. Maybe...but I still think it brought the hallmarks of Fetches. Which is not to say Maeve didn't help, or lead.
10. Yeah I agree pretty much with all of that.
11. Yeah sure why not. Good as any other reason.

Kindler:
I think it's possible that Rashid wasn't detecting Black Magic at all, but merely saw some of the results of black magic use in Chicago. As in, he saw the possibility that Molly would be tried and executed by the Council. I think it's an important distinction, because I don't know of any way GateBro could detect Black Magic over an area as large as Chicago. I mean, he has to manually check the Sidhe at the Outer Gates for Nemesis. We don't know that he can really sense Black Magic taint without being at or near the location in question—but we do know that he can take peeks into the future.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version