The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
New short story
morriswalters:
Marcone is much like a mantle. You can kill the man but you can't kill what he represents. So if Harry or Grey killed him there would soon be another like him or worse. Grey actually calls out something like this in the story. And this has been pointed out multiple times over the series.
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on October 13, 2019, 06:00:48 PM ---Destroying the red court seemed like eliminating the greater evil, and ended up making everything worse. Ditto egging Lara on to take charge of the white court. Maybe Harry should work on getting smarter before dismantling any more power systems.
--- End quote ---
This is precisely what Changes and Ghost Story are really about, unintended consequences, versus doing the right thing. Some fights aren't worth winning.
Also about Rent. Viti has no moral grounding, the concept of Rent as a moral obligation would not occur to her, this is JB blowing smoke. She's appears to be talking about the real rent on the office. Since Grey is at least a contemporary of Margaret I would assume that compound interest has made him wealthy.
123Chikadee:
Who said anything about killing him? I haven't read it yet, but I'm curious about what Grey says about it. I do like that this series is so complex.
Oh, I agree about Changes and Ghost Story being about untended consequences. Though, I think we'll have to agree to disagree about power systems and their dismantling.
Huh that's interesting. Well, I'm still a little disappointed that we didn't get to learn more about Margaret.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 14, 2019, 03:49:45 AM ---Marcone is much like a mantle. You can kill the man but you can't kill what he represents. So if Harry or Grey killed him there would soon be another like him or worse. Grey actually calls out something like this in the story. And this has been pointed out multiple times over the series.This is precisely what Changes and Ghost Story are really about, unintended consequences, versus doing the right thing. Some fights aren't worth winning.
--- End quote ---
It is far more complicated than that. The red court had to be stopped. Harry was not the only one who thought that and if Uriel, Vadderung and Mab work together to accomplish this it was not just done for Harry's daughter.
The red court was by that time an out of control destabilizing factor and the most active visible outsider pawn. Yes a lot of fallout and Harry's suicide meant he was not there to help mitigating it but all in all it was a good thing. Another bunch of violent psychotics trying to fill the gap does not diminish that in any way. It brings them to the open and we can handle them in the next books until the outsiders run out of pawns.
The Fomor would have attacked anyway. They had supported the red court before and their attack was nicely coordinated with the red court attack in changes. If the red court was not destroyed the white council would have had to fight the red court and the Fomor both.
Harry tends to blame himself to much and for the wrong things. His let the world burn attitude was wrong and did damage Molly and his suicide let to all the problems highlighted in ghost story but destroying the red court was not a bad decision.
I think people fall for one of Jim's writing tricks. Harry is an unreliable narrator. Later in Skin Game Michael did approve of the destruction of the red court and he understood that the destruction of so much evil did not happen without fallout.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: 123Chikadee on October 14, 2019, 05:53:45 AM ---Who said anything about killing him? I haven't read it yet, but I'm curious about what Grey says about it. I do like that this series is so complex.
Oh, I agree about Changes and Ghost Story being about untended consequences. Though, I think we'll have to agree to disagree about power systems and their dismantling.
Huh that's interesting. Well, I'm still a little disappointed that we didn't get to learn more about Margaret.
--- End quote ---
There are implied threats by both Marcone and Grey. Grey himself has a conversation about destroying the gang behind the pedophiles. Stating that he isn't a crusader and that even if he did, something else would take it's place. Harry draws the same conclusion about Marcone in the series.
When and if you read the story, pay particular attention to the last act. It displays the general conceit behind a series about a shape shifter. I assume, perhaps falsely, that this story was an audition.
@Arjan
The Merlin had already telegraphed his intent to root out the Reds, tree and branch. Assuming that he was really intending to do so and had the capability, then Harry's quest can be reduced to it's essentials, that is, to save his daughter over all else. I don't want to wander too far afield, but the idea is not was it moral to destroy the Reds, but was the price Harry was willing to pay, too high? Jim uses Molly as the example, but the lesson applies to all his allies. Is it right to ask your friends to make a sacrifice for a goal the is essentially selfish? Even if they seem to be willing to do so?
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 14, 2019, 02:17:08 PM ---
@Arjan
The Merlin had already telegraphed his intent to root out the Reds, tree and branch. Assuming that he was really intending to do so and had the capability, then Harry's quest can be reduced to it's essentials, that is, to save his daughter over all else. I don't want to wander too far afield, but the idea is not was it moral to destroy the Reds, but was the price Harry was willing to pay, too high? Jim uses Molly as the example, but the lesson applies to all his allies. Is it right to ask your friends to make a sacrifice for a goal the is essentially selfish? Even if they seem to be willing to do so?
--- End quote ---
That was the merlins intention but whether his actions were actually effective is debatable. I do not think the merlin was part of the grey council or was involved in Vadderungs planning. Harry did not think the merlin was effectively involved and the grey council was as far as he knew only involved after his chat with Ebenezer when Harry revealed his daughters identity and the place of sacrifice. The merlin was not cooperative so his intentions were not part of the calculation.
Uriel was pretty clear that is was wrong to bring Molly but that does not mean it was wrong to bring his other friends. Their problems started after Changes with Harry's suicide. Using Molly for that was probably even a greater problem than bringing her to Chichen Itza.
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