The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Did Kemmler start the Black Council?

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Bad Alias:
I'm not so sure that Sells, the FBI hexenwolves, and Cowl and Kumori are infected. Just because the adversary is behind or involved in a plot doesn't necessarily mean that the actor on stage is the adversary. And why bother infecting someone, something that almost certainly has limits, when you can corrupt them with black magic or offers of power?

@peregrine: Did Rashid say "the adversary?"

morriswalters:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on September 21, 2019, 03:48:44 PM ---I'm not so sure that Sells, the FBI hexenwolves, and Cowl and Kumori are infected. Just because the adversary is behind or involved in a plot doesn't necessarily mean that the actor on stage is the adversary. And why bother infecting someone, something that almost certainly has limits, when you can corrupt them with black magic or offers of power?

@peregrine: Did Rashid say "the adversary?"

--- End quote ---
From Cold Days page 350 my Kindle version.
--- Quote ---"Unwitting or not, virtually your every action in the past few years has resulted in a series of well-placed thumbs in the adversary's eye."
--- End quote ---

Bad Alias:
Thanks Morris.

My view for most of the bad guys in the book is that they are kind of in Harry's position in Rashid's statement. They are unwittingly helping the adversary and are not infected. A few are knowing, a few are infected, and not all those acting knowingly are infected.

One of the reasons I don't like the idea of everyone being infected is that it's kind of like "the devil made me do it." None of the characters are evil; just helpless pawns of the forces of evil. But maybe Nemesis requires active co-operation (or obvious domination like Cat-Sith that we'd notice), so my concern there is baseless.

Con:
Back to the original point. Kemmler was powerful enough to start World War 2 and fight the entire council. We know from Bob that he had connections to various nasty entities. This to me means that he was able to do this by starting the Black Council ensuring there loyalties the same way Justin DuMorne tried to ensure Elaine and Harry's.

g33k:

--- Quote from: Con on September 23, 2019, 03:37:24 AM --- Back to the original point. Kemmler was powerful enough to start World War 2 and fight the entire council. We know from Bob that he had connections to various nasty entities. This to me means that he was able to do this by starting the Black Council ensuring there loyalties the same way Justin DuMorne tried to ensure Elaine and Harry's.
--- End quote ---

n.b. there is no "Black Council" as such.  That's a label Harry invented to identify a group whose existence he deduced from evidence.

The two names that we have, that such groups have themselves used, are "The Circle" (currently active in the Dresdenverse) and the "Thule Society" (active in the late 1800's).  Whether Thule was a precursor organization, or separate, or is even continuous (and "The Circle" is part of it (or vice versa)) is unknown.  Whether Harry's "Black Council" is the same as (or related to) "The Circle" is also unknown.

I think we should take it as given that "bad-guy" wizard organizations are always around, often several at once, since most of them operate in secret, and may not know of one another.

Kemmler may indeed have founded one (or more), but also likely took over one (or more) that was convenient to him.
 
 

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