The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Souls and Ghosts.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 14, 2020, 11:46:23 AM --- All dogs go to Heaven.... ::)
--- End quote ---
Only if the cats allow it. They rule the place. ;D
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 14, 2020, 11:53:28 AM ---Only if the cats allow it. They rule the place. ;D
--- End quote ---
Hmmm.... Is that why I have a ceramic angel cat among my Christmas decorations? Yeah, I
think there is a cat that helps St Peter at the Gates.. All my dogs will be allowed in, they have
always been best buds with their feline housemates.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---You did not refute it.
--- End quote ---
My question was what, exactly, you believe I did not refute.
--- Quote ---I know that quote from Jim but that is about ghosts, not about shades.
--- End quote ---
According to google, the (relevant) definition of shade is "a ghost." Unless you can provide evidence that Jim has a different definition, then you are saying "the quote is about ghosts, not about ghosts."
--- Quote ---It is about most cases and clearly the book is not just about most cases
--- End quote ---
So now your argument is "the book is about exceptions, therefore every ghost in the book must be an exception"? Yeah, no.
--- Quote ---and in the book Morty states that there are exceptions but usually not.
--- End quote ---
You're going to need to provide a quote for this one, because as I remember it Mortimer was the one telling Harry that there was no way he was the original Harry, and that he was definitely just a ghost. It was during the car ride to Murphy's house.
--- Quote ---A Shade is different from a ghost. I have checked all the usages of the word in Ghost Story and they all refer to spirit + soul combinations and one suspect, Sir Stuart so that is a strong indication.
--- End quote ---
Several points:
1) Did you also check Grave Peril and Dead Beat?
2) Who used the word to refer to Harry? Because if it was anyone but Mab (and proxies), Demonreach, Uriel, and/or Bob, it actually disproves your point, because everyone not those people thought that Harry was a normal ghost.
3) Even if you're entirely correct that the word "shade" was only used to apply to ghosts that have souls and Sir Stuart's ghost by people who would know that said ghosts did have souls, it is still extremely weak evidence, because Harry, Corpsetaker, and Sir Stuart's ghost were the three most prominent ghosts in the book, and thus statistically are the ones most likely to end up being referred to by a synonym for "ghost" at some point.
--- Quote ---Add that to Uriel's interest which is an even stronger indication.
--- End quote ---
And I have definitely already refuted this point.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on January 14, 2020, 04:19:54 PM ---My question was what, exactly, you believe I did not refute.
According to google, the (relevant) definition of shade is "a ghost." Unless you can provide evidence that Jim has a different definition, then you are saying "the quote is about ghosts, not about ghosts."
--- End quote ---
Google? Really? That will probably tell you that spirit and soul are the same. Jim uses the terminology in his own way, he is creating the world and Ghost Story is where he really thinks it through. How he uses the terms in this book is leading not how someone on the internet defines it.
--- Quote ---So now your argument is "the book is about exceptions, therefore every ghost in the book must be an exception"? Yeah, no.
--- End quote ---
That is a refutation on the idea that there are no exceptions
--- Quote ---You're going to need to provide a quote for this one, because as I remember it Mortimer was the one telling Harry that there was no way he was the original Harry, and that he was definitely just a ghost. It was during the car ride to Murphy's house.
--- End quote ---
He did say it was possible but that the ghosts who claimed so where usually wrong even if they believed it themselves. Another reason why Sir Stuart wouldn't mention it and maybe even did not believe it himself.
Later on he did transfer Butters shade back to his body so he certainly knows about the possibility.
--- Quote ---Several points:
1) Did you also check Grave Peril and Dead Beat?
--- End quote ---
No but even if I did I would take Ghost story as leading. It is the book that really fleshed out his ideas.
--- Quote ---2) Who used the word to refer to Harry? Because if it was anyone but Mab (and proxies), Demonreach, Uriel, and/or Bob, it actually disproves your point, because everyone not those people thought that Harry was a normal ghost.
--- End quote ---
People who knew.
--- Quote ---
3) Even if you're entirely correct that the word "shade" was only used to apply to ghosts that have souls and Sir Stuart's ghost by people who would know that said ghosts did have souls, it is still extremely weak evidence, because Harry, Corpsetaker, and Sir Stuart's ghost were the three most prominent ghosts in the book, and thus statistically are the ones most likely to end up being referred to by a synonym for "ghost" at some point.
--- End quote ---
The word is not thrown around as a synonym just to make sentences run more smoothly.
--- Quote ---And I have definitely already refuted this point.
--- End quote ---
Not in my opinion, I did not get that feeling I sometimes have when someone makes an argument that really refutes what I am saying.
morriswalters:
This comes out of Jim trying to be cute. I doubt if he can or would be willing to clarify it. Sir Stuart calls Harry both a Shade and a Ghost, and he refers to himself as a Ghost. He also calls Capt. Murphy a Shade. So we're left with, Uriel hires Ghosts. Or Shades.
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