The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

How did the Red Court Originate?

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KurtinStGeorge:
I don't know what the origin of the Red Court is, but I think it's important to note that there has been some retconning done on the Red Court since they were first discussed and introduced. 

In Storm Front it's stated that vampires have a difficult time just maintaining themselves on the mortal plane of reality, they are really creatures of the Nevernever.  This was used to explain why they can't cross a threshold uninvited.  This idea was first ignored and quickly discarded.  In Grave Peril, Harry wasn't afraid looking into Bianca's eyes and sharing a soulgaze because "vampires don't have souls."  However, in Ghost Story we found out that trains to hell were working overtime right after Harry wiped out the Red Court, so scratch another early description of Red Court vamps.

So if there's any conflicting information on the Red Court, I would go with latest info, whether it's from Q&A's Jim has done over the years or in the notes of the Dresden Files game.

isoycrazy:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 21, 2019, 05:21:14 AM ---White Court are born as the offspring of a WCV and a mortal, but also must kill someone during their feed to become a full WCV.

--- End quote ---

Objection.  Connie Barrowill from the Bigfoot trilogy is a full White Court vampire because her power awakened in her first sexual encounter with Irwin.  The fact he doesn't die doesn't mean she isn't, biologically, now a Whamp.  It meant, as her father feared, she could be seen as inadequate.  She became one of them without actually finishing her kill.  She "failed" finishing this "sacred" first act of Whamp-hood.

But her healthy relationship with Irwin and his strong life force does show in universe a vampire feeding on the life force of a non-human.  It could be she becomes a lot stronger more quickly because of Irwin's healthy life force, like the paranet papers saying some ancient reds fed on the blood of gods.

Bad Alias:

--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 22, 2019, 09:08:36 AM ---However, in Ghost Story we found out that trains to hell were working overtime right after Harry wiped out the Red Court, so scratch another early description of Red Court vamps.

--- End quote ---

How big is the time frame "lately," when does Dresden show up on the tracks, and where is the boarding point? Even if the answers to these questions was such that it supported the proposition that Red's could be on board, doesn't necessitate that conclusion. All the half turned died, Eb killed hundreds of mercenaries who were overseeing ritual sacrifices, violence erupted globally immediately. Southbound trains would have increased business either way.

Just Al:

--- Quote from: Con on August 21, 2019, 02:24:51 AM ---Paranet Papers offers the most conclusive canon story of the Red Courts origins and rise to power.

(click to show/hide)There was a tribe conquered by the Inca who
worshipped gods that were very real—these
gods walked among the people of this tribe and
ruled them directly. They granted boons to the
faithful and they protected their people, but
they were cruel gods who demanded regular
sacrifice. Their people were little more than tools
and chattel to them, to use and discard at their
whim.
When the Inca conquered this tribe—whose
name has been lost to time—their gods allowed
it to happen. It’s likely they did this because
they knew that they would become a part of a
larger pantheon and thus gain more worshippers
and power. As their influence grew, so did their
potency, but it was not to last.
The Red Court soon infiltrated the Inca,
posed as their gods, and usurped the entire
pantheon just as they had the Maya. Already
very powerful and much more numerous than
these old gods—who numbered thirteen—they
were able to capture them and bind them. The
vampires drank of the blood of these gods and
kept them alive so that they might continue to
do so. The Red Court averted what could have
been a catastrophic event but, in so doing, engineered their rise to power. This event, it turned
out, was not much better for the people of South
America.
The spy told Lisa that this was how the
Lords of Outer Night gained a large portion of
their power, leeching it from the blood of gods.
I suspect the spy did not think that she would
believe its words, that those words would buy it
time, prolonging its existence a little bit longer.
So it played Scheherazade, feeding its captors
lies and half-truths and fanciful tales that
nobody would believe.
So the oirginal Lord of Outer Night were vampires/sorcerers who fed on Old Gods thereby gaining their power.

--- End quote ---

I think the author has conflated the Inca with the Aztec. While the Inca worshipped their Kings as gods, they didn't preform human sacrifice. They were also thousands of miles away. Substitute Aztec and the explanation makes sense.

g33k:

--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 22, 2019, 09:08:36 AM ---...  However, in Ghost Story we found out that trains to hell were working overtime right after Harry wiped  out the Red Court, so scratch another early description of Red Court vamps ...
--- End quote ---

Can you quote or cite, please?  I don't recall this; at least, not in this way.

There were a large number of half-turned (still human) proto-Ramp's.  I presume they had souls, and -- if they were ticketed for a Southbound Train -- would've contributed.

Similarly, there were a bunch of purely-human servants, and useful tools protected from enemies, who likely were doing pretty direly "sinful" stuff; and when the Ramp-protection expired... so did they.

Last but not least, the power-vacuum undoubtedly lead to innumerable acts of violence and murder as various parties tried to grab portions of the Red's holdings... creating yet more work on the Southbound line.

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