The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Quick question about pre-Storm Front
Mira:
--- Quote ---The idea of Harry being paroled (not pardoned) for murder seems inconsistent to the way Molly’s trial was handled.
--- End quote ---
I got the impression during the conversation between Harry and the Merlin when the Korean Kid got the chop that they had changed the process since Harry was tried... In other words, no trial, soul gaze and that was it... Why? Not enough full wizards to go around to train talented kids, they go astray quickly... Even less full wizards willing to take responsibility under the Doom for a kid on the boarder line or not so far along he/she cannot be pulled back... The prejudice of the moment is better safe than sorry because a warlock can do so much damage, so the chop... Molly was treated differently because Harry demanded it, she got a hearing, the hood was taken off her head, it was conducted in English... Harry was as good an advocate as the Merlin was...
I think you are being too simplistic about the verdict on Harry, I don't think it was so black and white... Yes, Harry used magic to kill Justin, but in self defense... Whether or not that is considered black magic or not clear, though Harry did admit in Death Masks that he had used it [against Justin? Not clear..] It may be that any magic used to kill another is considered dark, that is why wardens use a sword to execute.. So yes, killed Justin with magic, ergo warlock and should get the chop.. However, it was self defense against an experienced retired warden, ergo very powerful kid who may have been justified to do what he did and according to his soul gaze, not unredeemable.. Deciding factor? The Blackstaff was willing to take responsibility for him...
--- Quote ---If DuMorne were seen as a “good guy” why would Harry not be a executed?
--- End quote ---
I don't think that part was ever made clear one way or the other... The passage I quoted from Summer Knight implies that there are some who either thought or refused to believe that Justin had gone bad.. There are others who believe that he could have.. It is all twisted up with politics and some refusing that a former warden could have gone bad, verses those who thought Justin was a son of a bitch as Eb called him..
SerScot:
Mira,
--- Quote from: Mira on July 10, 2019, 11:19:45 AM ---I got the impression during the conversation between Harry and the Merlin when the Korean Kid got the chop that they had changed the process since Harry was tried... In other words, no trial, soul gaze and that was it... Why? Not enough full wizards to go around to train talented kids, they go astray quickly... Even less full wizards willing to take responsibility under the Doom for a kid on the boarder line or not so far along he/she cannot be pulled back... The prejudice of the moment is better safe than sorry because a warlock can do so much damage, so the chop... Molly was treated differently because Harry demanded it, she got a hearing, the hood was taken off her head, it was conducted in English... Harry was as good an advocate as the Merlin was...
I think you are being too simplistic about the verdict on Harry, I don't think it was so black and white... Yes, Harry used magic to kill Justin, but in self defense... Whether or not that is considered black magic or not clear, though Harry did admit in Death Masks that he had used it [against Justin? Not clear..] It may be that any magic used to kill another is considered dark, that is why wardens use a sword to execute.. So yes, killed Justin with magic, ergo warlock and should get the chop.. However, it was self defense against an experienced retired warden, ergo very powerful kid who may have been justified to do what he did and according to his soul gaze, not unredeemable.. Deciding factor? The Blackstaff was willing to take responsibility for him...
I don't think that part was ever made clear one way or the other... The passage I quoted from Summer Knight implies that there are some who either thought or refused to believe that Justin had gone bad.. There are others who believe that he could have.. It is all twisted up with politics and some refusing that a former warden could have gone bad, verses those who thought Justin was a son of a bitch as Eb called him..
--- End quote ---
If the soul gaze is the dertermining factor then why would the Merlin risk executing Molly after Ramirez soulgazed her and said she was redeemable?
kbrizzle:
Speaking from the political angle, remember that Eb has friends on the Senior Council - Martha Liberty, Injun Joe, Simon Petrovich (who likely would’ve been on the SC at the time of Justin’s death) - that’s 3 votes for ‘pardoning’ Harry. I’ll bet Rashid was the 4th. We see this play out in SK.
4 out of 7 is enough to save Harry. As we see in PG, Molly is saved after enough members of the SC come through that the Merlin can’t vote their proxies.
Another point of note in this debate is the mark of HWWB on Harry - we know he gets this from his interaction with the Outsider prior to his confrontation with Justin. The SC would have to know what it is, & would know that a teenager is unlikely to have the knowledge to summon an Outsider. They would come to the seemingly logical conclusion that Justin was trying to Nfect Harry - Harry would’ve told them how Justin tried to enthrall him, which is what started their conflict.
Personally I’m not sure that it was Justin who sent HWWB, but the SC would likely see it that way.
@Mira
Do we know that Justin’s house burned down to the ground? I don’t recall reading that although it’s possible - IIRC there’s a throwaway line in one of the casefiles where Bob jokes about how Justin salvaged him from ashes of Kemmler’s place, similar to how Harry salvaged Bob from the ashes of Justin’s.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: kbrizzle ---They would come to the seemingly logical conclusion that Justin was trying to Nfect Harry - Harry would’ve told them how Justin tried to enthrall him, which is what started their conflict.
--- End quote ---
Is there any indication that the Council knows about Nemfections?
Mira:
--- Quote ---If the soul gaze is the dertermining factor then why would the Merlin risk executing Molly after Ramerize said she was redeemable?
--- End quote ---
It was Harry, I believe that soul gazed her... Why? Because his stance was that most were not redeemable and not worth the risk, no matter what. See the debate he and Harry had right after the Korean Kid was killed. Also Harry was winning the argument on political and ethical terms which really pissed him off. Only Rashid stalling until the rest of the Council returned saved her head... That, and the fact that Harry stepped up to take responsibility for her, which in the Merlin's mind was killing two birds with one stone...
--- Quote ---Do we know that Justin’s house burned down to the ground? I don’t recall reading that although it’s possible - IIRC there’s a throwaway line in one of the casefiles where Bob jokes about how Justin salvaged him from ashes of Kemmler’s place, similar to how Harry salvaged Bob from the ashes of Justin’s.
--- End quote ---
I think there are hints that it was, the biggest hint was at that time young Harry had little control over his spells.. A very scared Harry fighting for his life with adrenaline flowing freely would release a fire bomb that would take everything out... Remember this is one reason why he thought Elaine was dead, he thought she had perished in the fire he created leaving no trace of a body..
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