The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

When Did Karrin Learn of the White Council?

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Bad Alias:
In Chapter 18 of Summer Knight Harry tells Murphy "all of it" at the Wal-Mart. "[M]ost of all, I told her about the White Council." So the obvious answer is "that's when she learned about it, idiot." But in Chapter 31 of Fool Moon in the pit on Marconne's estate, Murphy says "I can't figure out why they [the FBI hexenwolves] didn't do the deed themselves, instead of leaving it to MacFinn." Harry responds with "Trying to cover their tracks from the White Council." Murphy doesn't respond with anything even close to something that would indicate she doesn't know what the White Council is. Does she already know? Is she playing it cool because Dresden is talking more than he usually does? Murphy doesn't seem like the type to just let it go if she has no idea what Harry's talking about. Especially in Fool Moon. But that appears to be precisely what she does. We don't hear mention of it again. Maybe Murphy got the information from other sources.

While knowledge of the White Council isn't something one can get in the local library, it's not as if it's impossible to obtain even some pretty sensitive information about it. In Chapter 1 of Summer Knight, Billy know's that the "wizard's White Council is coming to town." Harry responds with "[W]hat White Council?" Point being that Billy has figured out that the White Council exists, and the Council is coming to Chicago in the middle of a war. Presumably, that information would be deemed sensitive. In Chapter 8 of Grave Peril, Susan indicates that she doesn't know what the White Council is, but she could just be using the opportunity to dig for more information. If she honestly doesn't know what the Council is, it's not easy for someone who isn't a member of "the community" to find out about.

Wolfeyes:
My take on it is it was either Early Installment Weirdness or that Harry might've mentioned something about there being a wizarding council but not the full details of it. Since Murphy knew some things from Harry on top of him being a wizard, but she didn't know all of it, which is a large part of what led to conflict early on.

Mr. Death:
I would posit that if the pit is where Murphy first heard the name "White Council," that wasn't really the time or place to start digging for details, as they had rather more pressing concerns at the time.

I would also posit that Murphy would have figured out that there's some kind of governing body for wizards based on her interactions with Harry.

Doesn't he tell her about how killing with magic is against the laws in Storm Front? She's bright enough to figure out that if there are laws, there must be someone who makes and/or enforces them, considering she's in exactly that sort of business.

Bad Alias:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 03, 2019, 11:42:48 AM ---[1.]I would posit that if the pit is where Murphy first heard the name "White Council," that wasn't really the time or place to start digging for details, as they had rather more pressing concerns at the time.
...
[2.]Doesn't he tell her about how killing with magic is against the laws in Storm Front?

--- End quote ---
1. I get that, but she doesn't say anything until the Wal-Mart scene? And even then her reaction doesn't indicate whether or not she knew of the White Council's existence. Harry's inner monologue makes it look like he thought she didn't know anything about it.

2. He specifically avoids the issue, at least in Chapter 2. "I don't talk to regular people about the White Council. It just isn't done." He also doesn't explain why researching how to kill with magic is a bad idea. He just says "you don't understand." That's the whole reason the conflict between Murphy and Harry makes sense to me in Storm Front. Harry keeps lying to Murphy because he hasn't told her about the White Council in order to protect her, which actually gets her poisoned by a giant scorpion.

There is always the possibility that Murphy notices Harry's White Council comment and locks onto it. She then starts poking around and figures out all sorts of things about it and Harry's relationship with the Council. Who and what Harry is isn't exactly secret in the "community," and unlike Susan, Murphy is there to protect them (mostly), where Susan is there to expose them. So, people might be a lot more willing to talk to Murphy. I'm having trouble placing when it starts, but Murphy is pretty well known in the community. Susan is lurking around S.I. all the way back in Storm Front. I'm sure her reputation in the community exploded at the end of Fool Moon. By White Night, Abby knows who she is on sight. Murphy figuring out at least the framework of what the White Council is and it's relationship with Harry would explain the drastic improvements in their relationship. (Outside of Jim just moving away from the p.i./cop frenemies trope). Murphy understands Dresden and why he has been holding back.

I guess that's my theory of what happened until someone comes along and punches holes in it or has a better idea.

g33k:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on July 03, 2019, 04:51:02 AM --- ... In Chapter 1 of Summer Knight, Billy know's that the "wizard's White Council is coming to town." Harry responds with "[W]hat White Council?" Point being that Billy has figured out that the White Council exists, and the Council is coming to Chicago in the middle of a war. Presumably, that information would be deemed sensitive.
--- End quote ---
I think it's simpler than that.  Once you've got a foot in the Spooky world, you see a LOT.

Most mortal practitioners know of the White Council.  The Council makes a point of giving a Warden-visit to anyone they deem even capable of enough power to do any active Black Magic; Charity's group got a visit.  The Ordo Lebes knew.  Everyone who's a regular at MacAnaly's knows.  Etc...

Most of them probably know there's some territorial/vigilante werewolves who patrol over near the Univeristy.  I presume some of them live in the neighborhood, and know some of the Alpha's personally... and thus, vice versa.

By the time of SK, Billy actually has a huge network of sources who know about the White Council (albeit only low-level / outsider info (mostly low-level:  given female-line magic, I suspect that some minor witches have GENERATIONS of 'watching-the-WC' wisdom they have accumulated in their respective BoS's/whatever)); he doesn't have to rely upon Harry for that.  Harry's "what WC" is a reflexive thing, but if he'd stopped to think he'd have realized how silly it was.

Given that the WC seems to like to use the same warehouse when they come to Chicago, I presume the local supernatural community has picked up on the signs -- greycloaks in the area, etc -- and knows when "the Council is coming," albeit not with any specificity.
 

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