The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Denarian Short Story

<< < (14/17) > >>

Mira:

--- Quote ---
It’s like in WW2 - just because Stalin opposed Hitler, it didn’t make him a good guy or that any rational person would want to live in Stalin’s Russia. He was useful in beating the Nazis & that was it. I think this will be similar to Nic’s arc.
--- End quote ---

Very good point, if you consider the number of people he starved to death in the Ukraine for starters, the number of innocents he murdered ranks up there with Hitler. 

g33k:

--- Quote from: kbrizzle on July 27, 2019, 07:20:09 PM ---... he forces Harry to try & manipulate Anna Valmont into helping them in SG (that’s not how it plays out, but this was Nic’s intention)...

--- End quote ---
FWIW ... 
I think it played out EXACTLY the way Nic planned it to.

Harry tried to protect poor Anna by discouraging her.  Predictable; so predictable, Nic could likely hang his whole plan on Harry's gallant-and-protective impulse.

Harry admitted to her he was in it to screw-over Nic.  Predictable again.  Harry usually doesn't lie, and would have no reason to.  Nic knows Mab has a hate-on for him; even if Harry didn't, her orders to the WK would be, "fulfill the letter of the law, but in doing so... screw him so hard that his wife can feel it!"

Anna has a hate-on for Nic, and wants a piece of screwing him over.  She has ALREADY seen Harry beat the Denarians once, during she Shroud caper; saved her life, too.  So if Harry is gonna bulldog Nic, this is her golden opportunity to take a bite, too.  Predictable.

The Fomor show up to get their data back (and to Disapprove With Extreme Prejudice).  Predictable.

Harry escapes with Anna (noting that Hannah and Lasciel are there to make sure everything goes according the plan!), renewing that whole "bonding under fire" vibe, reinforcing that Anna can rely on Harry to keep her safe from the Bad Things.

All in all, I think that was a set-piece produced by Nic, and directed by Hannah/Lasciel, enacted by Harry&Anna & by the Fomor.

kbrizzle:
@Mira
Absolutely, and since our intro to Nic in DM has him trying to spread another international plague (powered by the fake Shroud), I find it hard to believe that any version of Nic’s paradise would not be horrible to normal people.
It’s also important to note that the Denarians grow in power during times of fear & unrest as Michael notes in DM.

@g33k
Definitely possible - Anna does come & join the heist squad at the end of the day, whatever her reasons - so Nic does get what he wants there.

Mr. Death:
I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that not winning makes Nicodemus a bad villain.

Most of your great villains don't win. The vast majority of fiction has the villains not winning. Saying the mass murdering, near-genocidal psychopath deserves a win just strikes me as misguided at best.

Especially since the very last thing we've seen him do on screen is attempt to murder six children and forcing their mother to watch them burn to death. Not to further any plan, just purely out of spite.

Yeah, that's a guy to root for.

I don't think he and Mab are comparable at all, given all we've seen. She's very clearly the lesser of two evils.

She keeps her word; Nicodemus literally gains power from lying and breaking his word, and has done so repeatedly.

Mab has offered Harry the occasional kindness, and has shown empathy. Nicodemus has offered Harry a collar, and tried to kill him out of spite repeatedly.

Mab has to make ruthless choices to preserve reality. Nicodemus attempts to have children murdered because he was outmaneuvered and is angry.

Mab wants weapons to fight Outsiders. Among Nidocemus's stated goals is destroying the Swords of the Cross, which are not only monstrously effective against Outsiders, but exist explicitly for the purpose of helping people and saving lives.

It's like comparing someone who wants a gun for home protection with someone who's regularly firebombing ambulances.

Kindler:
The Spartans weren't really evil, just brutally utilitarian; some of the stuff they were famous for (such as killing newborn babies with birth defects) are evil by any moral standard from the past several centuries, but not so much for the Iron Age. Same as Mab; if something Serves a Necessary Purpose, regardless of how unpleasant it is, then it should be done.
The point is that Mab has never been shown to be unnecessarily cruel. Even taking those Fae children in Cold Case isn't something I would label cruel. It's the fulfillment of Mab's Purpose, along with the Purpose of that Fae community. For someone in Mab's position, I kind of apply the same litmus test for cruelty as I do for tyranny: if it's the execution or application of arbitrary power, then it's cruel. For example, if Mab was taking those Fae children because she was annoyed at that community, or to make an example, or pretty much any reason other than "the literal Walls of Reality are under attack by eldritch abominations, and we need soldiers to fight against them," then it'd be arbitrary and cruel. It's not pleasant, and we're not supposed to like it, but we can understand it, at least.
Nicodemus has never been shown to do anything except pursue power. Maybe he'd use that power against the Outsiders, but I doubt that's his primary motivation. It's more like "If the Outsiders win, I lose."

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page