The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Short Story
toodeep:
To be fair he does have one big win - he has the holy grail.
Also, he can have definitive wins that don't cause the apocalypse. The short story could be about him raiding a church facility to free up some coins and destroy/corrupt some data about himself, and successfully give a recently liberated coin to someone in the upper hierarchy of the Church or something else that would be a more subtle way of complicating Michaels life. Though that wouldn't advance the overall story line much.
It might be interesting if in addition to doing some of those things he was doing/gaining something that would help in whatever his plans are for the grail.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 28, 2019, 05:05:38 PM ---When Nic wins without qualification, it's things like the Black Plague.
Marcone, we're able to root for and read his short story because as bad a guy as he is, he's up against something worse.
I don't want to read a story about Nicodemus successfully murdering innocents by the truck load to fuel his own selfish agenda and -- in all likelihood -- also murdering good people like the Knights trying to stop him.
If I wanted to read that kind of thing I'd have stuck with Game of Thrones.
--- End quote ---
Amen...
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---When Nic wins without qualification, it's things like the Black Plague.
Marcone, we're able to root for and read his short story because as bad a guy as he is, he's up against something worse.
I don't want to read a story about Nicodemus successfully murdering innocents by the truck load to fuel his own selfish agenda and -- in all likelihood -- also murdering good people like the Knights trying to stop him.
If I wanted to read that kind of thing I'd have stuck with Game of Thrones.
--- End quote ---
I don't mind if Nicodemus' win is countered later, so long as it takes a while. Like, if it had taken a couple of books to repair Fidellachius, rather than having it happen less than a day after Nicodemus broke it.
Maybe we could see him convince one of Harry's friends to take up a coin and leave, then have a book where you see the person slowly being corrupted, then in another book something happens and Harry has to work with whoever while they still have a coin, and at the end of that book Harry has managed to convince them to surrender the coin, but they still feel awful about what they did. Something like that. I feel like that would be something that would feel like a win for Nicodemus for long enough to have an impact, without being super depressing.
My main problem with Nicodemus is that none of the bad stuff he does seems to have negative consequences past the end of the book he does it in. Even when he gets Harry to touch Lasciel's coin, the very next time we see anything to do with the Harry and Lasciel's shadow thing, it's Lasciel's shadow helping him to avert a disaster, and the worst Harry ever does because of Lasciel's shadow is damage a couple of storefronts.
--- Quote ---To be fair he does have one big win - he has the holy grail.
--- End quote ---
I'd thought Michael indicated that there wasn't much Nicodemus could really do with that. But I might be wrong.
--- Quote ---Also, he can have definitive wins that don't cause the apocalypse. The short story could be about him raiding a church facility to free up some coins and destroy/corrupt some data about himself, and successfully give a recently liberated coin to someone in the upper hierarchy of the Church or something else that would be a more subtle way of complicating Michaels life.
--- End quote ---
This.
Fcrate:
Nah. But it might be fun to see Nicodemus win in the past. One of his successes, or the story of his infiltration of the church to remove all records talking about him. Retrieving coins. Any of that, I'd be up for.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 28, 2019, 11:51:20 PM ---I don't mind if Nicodemus' win is countered later, so long as it takes a while. Like, if it had taken a couple of books to repair Fidellachius, rather than having it happen less than a day after Nicodemus broke it.
--- End quote ---
I kinda see the point, but then you'd have people thinking that Jim "chickened out" of leaving it broken. Having it fixed in the same book it's broken makes it clear that was the plan all along.
--- Quote ---Maybe we could see him convince one of Harry's friends to take up a coin and leave, then have a book where you see the person slowly being corrupted, then in another book something happens and Harry has to work with whoever while they still have a coin, and at the end of that book Harry has managed to convince them to surrender the coin, but they still feel awful about what they did. Something like that. I feel like that would be something that would feel like a win for Nicodemus for long enough to have an impact, without being super depressing.
--- End quote ---
We already saw all that from Harry's perspective. We don't need to see the exact same thing from the outside. And nearly all of Harry's friends have been personally injured by one of the Denarians, there's no way in -- or out of -- Hell that they'd be stupid enough to take a coin. If they were that stupid they'd already be dead.
--- Quote ---My main problem with Nicodemus is that none of the bad stuff he does seems to have negative consequences past the end of the book he does it in. Even when he gets Harry to touch Lasciel's coin, the very next time we see anything to do with the Harry and Lasciel's shadow thing, it's Lasciel's shadow helping him to avert a disaster, and the worst Harry ever does because of Lasciel's shadow is damage a couple of storefronts.
--- End quote ---
Shiro is still dead. Michael is still crippled. Murphy is still grievously injured. At least one Splattercon!!!-goer is dead because of Lasciel's influence.
Sure, if you only measure it on the basis of "did he successfully kill or completely turn the main character to the dark side," then sure, he's harmless.
But then, so are the vast majority of villains ever written.
--- Quote ---I'd thought Michael indicated that there wasn't much Nicodemus could really do with that. But I might be wrong.
--- End quote ---
Too early to say. Even Nicodemus just destroying it or perverting it could be a bad thing.
--- Quote ---This.
--- End quote ---
Again, I really don't see the appeal of 30 pages of Nicodemus doing bad things to good people and getting away with it.
Plus? A story's mainly interesting if it challenges its protagonist in some way. Nicodemus isn't going to be challenged by that. He's challenged by people like Harry and Michael.
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