The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Would the Knights have gone after the Denarians in the beginning of SmF if...
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---In Harry's case in Death Mask it was a little more complicated than that. The mission from Heaven
was to keep Harry safe, yes, Shiro unknown at the moment was dying of cancer was willing to take Harry's place.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how the fact that Shiro was dying of cancer has an impact on the Knights' willingness to rescue people.
Let's use another example of the Knights rescuing someone: Ivy.
The situations are parallel. Both people were kidnapped through use of that giant pentagram, for purposes of forcing them to accept a coin. In both instances the Knights were not getting any holy bat-signals of where to find them, but believed that they could be found in other ways. In Marcone's case, they refused to go look for him, and in Ivy's case, they agreed to go look for her.
Differences between the two are:
1) Marcone's a bad guy, and Ivy's a good guy
2) scale of potential damage
3) by the time they went looking for Ivy, Harry had convinced Michael that Lasciel's shadow wasn't around to screw with him
I can't think of any others.
For 1, the Knights of the Cross aren't supposed to judge people, so I don't see how this should matter. You could argue that, per Skin Game, the Knights of the Cross have a special responsibility towards innocents, which Marcone was not. However, in context of when Michael said that in Skin Game, it seemed to mean that an innocent was someone who hadn't chosen to expose themselves to whatever danger, and since Ivy had chosen to expose herself to the danger of the Denarians when she agreed to mediate the dispute, she shouldn't count either.
For 2, Michael made it clear in Skin Game that the stakes of a single soul was enough to risk an archangel Falling, so the fact that Marcone's soul was in danger should have been enough.
That leaves 3 as the only reason I can think of for the difference.
Can other people think of other reasons?
morriswalters:
Harry's tracking spells require something linked to the thing he's tracking, Does he have something that I'm unaware of?
When the Denarians aren't looking all demonish, they look just like anyone else. There are over 8 million people in Chicago. Exactly what would you have Toot and company look for.
Say you had a coin to track, you do understand you would find yourself?
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark ---In Marcone's case, they refused to go look for him, and in Ivy's case, they agreed to go look for her.
--- End quote ---
They didn't refuse to look for him, Michael refused to strike the Denarians without first offering a chance of repentance to them, which is what Harry wants.
g33k:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 24, 2019, 02:25:50 PM ---I'm not sure how the fact that Shiro was dying of cancer has an impact on the Knights' willingness to rescue people.
--- End quote ---
I think the argument is:
Shiro did not go to rescue Harry.
Shiro went to die in place of Harry.
I'm not sure if there's any WoJ on this point.
But it makes a strong argument: when a Knight steps up in that way, their choice to pay that price is the key feature of the event. Whether there is a "rescue" involved, or another foil-the-bad-guys plan, the Knight's sacrifice is the defining thing.
Therefore (goes the argument) that incident has no real bearing on any discussion of knightly-rescuing; that wasn't what the event was about.
I'm not convinced the argument is correct; but I observe it to be a very-strong argument, and one not readily susceptible to being refuted.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 24, 2019, 01:10:57 AM ---3) I wonder if a Denarian coin could be used in tracking spells? (And what the result of doing so would be?)
--- End quote ---
Now I'm picturing Harry traipsing across Chicago and finding a portal to Hell. Probably near the DMV.
On topic: I don't think they would, no. Michael's argument is ideological; he does not want to risk the Swords in a preemptive strike. You argue that they could have gone after them without the intent to kill; that's what they eventually do. But the stakes were much higher at that point. Not only is there a child in danger, there's the risk of nuclear strike(s).
As far as Michael mistrusting Harry, I don't believe that, at that point in the story, Michael found Harry's behavior odd yet. I think it was the battle in the train station that tipped Michael off; in pitch blackness against Hobbs, which are harmed by light itself, fire is kinda the obvious weapon. Harry didn't use it offensively at all—he only used his Ball o' Sunshine spell (an important distinction; Harry doesn't think of it as Fire. Also funny to note that that's when Middle Gruff shows up.)
I think that the train station fight cued Michael that there was something wrong, and that that's when he began seriously suspecting that Lasciel was messing with his head—trying to prevent Dresden from fighting at his best, and possibly keep him from messing with the Denarians.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I'm not sure how the fact that Shiro was dying of cancer has an impact on the Knights' willingness to rescue people.
--- End quote ---
Shiro took Harry's place for Nic to torture and then infect with the plague... Harry felt guilty about that so before any of that even began, Shiro wrote a letter along with his diagnosis saying that he was dying anyway... Shiro was willing to rescue Harry, but there was a special reason for him doing it.. The fact that he was dying anyway altered a bit his sacrifice for Harry...
Rescuing Ivy wasn't all that important, keeping the Archive out of Denarian hands is another matter all together..
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