The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 04, 2019, 07:54:52 PM ---You could as easily claim that Harry owes it to everyone around him to go live as a hermit and never get close to anyone, because trouble might find him and hurt those around him.
--- End quote ---
That is what Ebeneezer does.
Wolfeyes raises a good point arguing that Jim wants us to believe it is Harry's fault, not just in this case, but in all of them, that harm has come because he didn't share information. I don't believe he is ever told it's not his fault. He does repeatedly bring up the point that people have been hurt by him not informing them. He is often called out for blaming himself in general.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 04, 2019, 08:40:14 PM ---To me, the issue is not that Harry is in any way culpable in Kirby's death, but that, by refusing to share information, Harry allowed the possibility that other Alphas would get killed due to the lack of information. It's a hypothetical concern that was only really brought home to Will and Harry when Kirby died. For example, if the Alpha's had gotten into a fight with a Denarian and one of them had died, there's a good chance Harry would have had some culpability, because he had a bunch of information about Denarians that might have helped, but up until this point he hasn't shared it. This isn't true with the Skinwalker, of course, but it makes the possibilities clear.
--- End quote ---
Agree.
g33k:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 04, 2019, 08:40:14 PM ---To me, the issue is not that Harry is in any way culpable in Kirby's death, but that, by refusing to share information, Harry allowed the possibility that other Alphas would get killed due to the lack of information. It's a hypothetical concern that was only really brought home to Will and Harry when Kirby died. For example, if the Alpha's had gotten into a fight with a Denarian and one of them had died, there's a good chance Harry would have had some culpability, because he had a bunch of information about Denarians that might have helped, but up until this point he hasn't shared it. This isn't true with the Skinwalker, of course, but it makes the possibilities clear.
--- End quote ---
He could have said something. But only something vague.
And he did. "This is bad. Really bad."
As one might expect, this did not suffice. Most people don't want to believe in their own mortality; most young people don't seem able to. And the Alpha's? Supernaturally tough, dangerous? What did THEY have to be afraid of? One scared wizard's vague warnings.
Even if Harry had said to them, "There are things in the supernatural realm that can tear a werewolf apart... tear a PACK of werewolves apart. And one of them is here in town, right now, hunting the neighborhood," I don't think ti would have disuaded them.
Mira:
--- Quote ---To me, the issue is not that Harry is in any way culpable in Kirby's death, but that, by refusing to share information, Harry allowed the possibility that other Alphas would get killed due to the lack of information. It's a hypothetical concern that was only really brought home to Will and Harry when Kirby died. For example, if the Alpha's had gotten into a fight with a Denarian and one of them had died, there's a good chance Harry would have had some culpability, because he had a bunch of information about Denarians that might have helped, but up until this point he hasn't shared it. This isn't true with the Skinwalker, of course, but it makes the possibilities clear.
--- End quote ---
In the fight that killed Kirby, Harry did not know until after the fact what they were up against.. He gave them the information he had, it was bad and dangerous, that is all he knew.. What Will was saying on page 220 almost two hundred pages later is the fact that Kirby was willing to and did die to help Harry earned them the right to know fully what the stakes were before going in, they weren't kids anymore to be shielded...
--- Quote ---Wolfeyes raises a good point arguing that Jim wants us to believe it is Harry's fault, not just in this case, but in all of them, that harm has come because he didn't share information. I don't believe he is ever told it's not his fault. He does repeatedly bring up the point that people have been hurt by him not informing them. He is often called out for blaming himself in general.
--- End quote ---
Will clearly tells him it isn't his fault...
Mira:
--- Quote ---He could have said something. But only something vague.
And he did. "This is bad. Really bad."
--- End quote ---
But that was all the information Harry had in that moment... And he did share it..
--- Quote ---Even if Harry had said to them, "There are things in the supernatural realm that can tear a werewolf apart... tear a PACK of werewolves apart. And one of them is here in town, right now, hunting the neighborhood," I don't think ti would have disuaded them.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, and that is what Will was trying to tell Harry afterwards, they knew the score, they are adults they made their choice...
Mira:
--- Quote ---In the case of Kirby, the narrative doesn't challenge Billy's response to Kirby's death (contrasted to how the narrative challenged Butter in Skin Game). Billy is the one challenging Harry and is framed in justified in expecting Harry to share more information. Harry might not be the cause but there's culpability, otherwise Harry would have no reason to change how he does things.
--- End quote ---
Not true... What Will was saying was with Kirby's death they have proven that they are willing to pay the ultimate price, they are not kids that need to be protected.. That isn't assigning culpability for Kirby's death, it is demanding respect as team members.. Harry realizes that, he knows he needs them in the coming fight, he realizes they are adults now, capable of making choices. All he can do now is give them what information he can so they can make the choices right for them.
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