The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Role of Murphy going forward
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---In my opinion, Murphy's character and it's changes from 12 up to book 15 are quite explainable.
After Harry's presume'd death in book 12, Murphy got hit hard. More importantly, in her opinion Harry is not dead because his body is not found. At that point Murphy is like a family of a soldier missing in action. Harry is missing, presumed dead but there is no body. There is no closure. She is hoping Harry is still alive, afraid he is truely dead and in denial. Unlik.All that plus all other external factors must have strain her badly. This would explain her hard line methods when Harry first appear in book 13. Murphy's condition is different from Molly. Molly knows what exactly happened to Harry. She knows Harry is dead because she help arrange it. Molly suffers from guilt. Murphy however, suffers from regret and uncertainty.
By the end of book 13, Murphy must have healled somewhat. By facing Harry's ghost and gaining the confirmation that Harry is truely dead, Murphy has gotten her closure. She is devastated, but she can now continue with her life. The end of GS, where Mortimer shielded Murphy while she is crying is the sign of her emotional recovery.
Just after Murphy accepted Harry's death and start to go on with her life, Harry returns from the dead. Molly has warning from Lea, Murphy get the full surprise package. From this alone, her innitial rather cold reception to Harry's return is understandable. It is hard enough for her to shift from believing Harry is still alive when Harry first died in book 12 into accepting that Harry is truely dead after she meet Harry's ghost in book 13. Now in book 14, she has to shift back from accepting Harry is dead to Harry is still alive again. It is a major emotional upheaval for her.
A shock though it was, it is after all a good news in the end. Once the shock is over, the fact that Harry is indeed not dead must be a major boon for Murphy emotionally which would explain why she gotten a lot better once book 15comes around.
In terms of character, all seems to be in order.
--- End quote ---
I don't have an issue with her character transition from books 13 to 15, but I think there are major problems with her character transition from books 13 to 14. In book 13, she comes off as like the worst of her Fool Moon self, only without the law to rein her in. She also spends the whole book in denial about Harry's death, to the point where her entire character arc in that book is accepting that Harry's really dead. And then, in book 14 she goes from that to "oh, of course explosions mean Harry" (even though he's dead, and she spent the entire last book learning to accept that, and we have no reason to believe she has any information to the contrary) and being perfectly reasonable and accepting about everything (except for the scene where she blatantly and viciously emotionally manipulates Harry, but I accept that Jim didn't mean it to come off that way) and being fine with Harry explicitly keeping secrets? And all of this, without us ever seeing the transition stage? No, just no. The transition from books 12-13 worked. The transition from books 14-15 worked. The transition from books 13-15 worked. The transition from books 13-14...either we missed 1-3 books worth of character development from Murphy, or she's been gotten to badly.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I don't have an issue with her character transition from books 13 to 15, but I think there are major problems with her character transition from books 13 to 14. In book 13, she comes off as like the worst of her Fool Moon self, only without the law to rein her in. She also spends the whole book in denial about Harry's death, to the point where her entire character arc in that book is accepting that Harry's really dead. And then, in book 14 she goes from that to "oh, of course explosions mean Harry" (even though he's dead, and she spent the entire last book learning to accept that, and we have no reason to believe she has any information to the contrary) and being perfectly reasonable and accepting about everything (except for the scene where she blatantly and viciously emotionally manipulates Harry, but I accept that Jim didn't mean it to come off that way) and being fine with Harry explicitly keeping secrets? And all of this, without us ever seeing the transition stage? No, just no. The transition from books 12-13 worked. The transition from books 14-15 worked. The transition from books 13-15 worked. The transition from books 13-14...either we missed 1-3 books worth of character development from Murphy, or she's been gotten to badly.
--- End quote ---
Truth is, until we see how it goes in Peace Talks we haven't a clue. Murphy has taken two severe blows, one to her body and another to her mind at the hands of Nic.. Both are recoverable.. Her body most likely will recover pretty well, she is healthy and in good condition.. True, she may never be 100%, but she can learn to deal with that.. Her mind and confidence might be another matter or rather a more difficult matter to calculate.. She was very confident of herself and how she felt about things going into her fight with Nic, first he goaded her into breaking a Holy Sword, then he proceeded to take her apart physically all the while whispering in her ear all kinds of things.. Now I know it turned out okay in the end.. She loves Harry and vice versa last we saw, and the Holy Sword got remade again and a new Knight named.. However the last time we saw Murphy she still was in her hospital bed and on pain meds.... She has rolled with a lot of bunches it is true, but has she taken one too many? Don't think we will know until she is up and around again.. So Murphy going forward? Anyone's guess.
morriswalters:
Jim needs to resolve exactly what he wants of Murphy. She seems to be a punching bag. Need some cheap sympathy, beat up Murphy. What I expect is that they will have sex and that Murphy will rather quickly get whacked. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not hopeful.
g33k:
--- Quote from: huangjimmy108 on May 15, 2019, 02:49:31 AM --- BTW: where exactly it is specified that the paranet is a practicianer only organization? Or where exactly it is specified that Murphy is an ally of the paranet instead of a member? I seem not to remember any of that.
--- End quote ---
"The Paranet" is pretty loosely-defined. Furthermore, it's an ad-hoc association of very-very-many disparate groups. Every group was originally invited because it was a Talent-centric and/or magic-facing group, and each group defines its own membership.
In later stories, we see that the Paranet has grown beyond the original vision. It's not clear, for example, that Marcone's organization (at least the Accorded part(s) of it) IS "part of" the Paranet... but it's not clear that they are NOT, either.
But with such a disparate membership I can only expect (at least some) individuals without any magic; by the same token, I can imagine a member of the White Council who decides to work with a group of lower-level talents... and thus the WC Wizard becomes a member of the Paranet!
Rather than people being "allies of the Paranet" I would expect a group that joins to consist of Talents-and-their-allies. Those "allies" are defined by the group as part of the group, and thus they are part of the Paranet.
At least, mostly. Given the loose definitions, I don't expect ANY hard-and-fast universal rules apply... But "almost entirely" magical members seems fair, to me.
Elaine, as one of the founders of the Paranet, and NOT a WC wizard, is clearly eligible to be the boss, but might "delegate" most of the interface-with-the-WC duties to someone else, so as to avoid most of the contact with more-powerful wizards. She may be able to bat her eyes and get Ramirez to blink; she might even be able to get Arthur Langtry to presume she's weak, because he DOES tend toward arrogant assumptions. But I cannot see her pulling the wool over Eb's eyes. Eb, for example, will have heard a LOT about her in the process of reclaiming Harry and setting his feet on the right path...
Murphy, known to the Chicago coven, may well be "part" of their group, for purposes of joining the Paranet. And as a clued-in Mundane, with contacts on both the Straight and Spooky sides of the street, may be an ideal person to act as the de facto "VP of Operations" under the auspices of "CEO Elaine".
Last but not least... I expect there's Other Shit lurking in unexamined parts of the Paranet. White Council wizards? As noted above, yup. Sponsored magicians? Oh, yeah... with Faerie and Old God sponsors... sponsors from Hell (likely not Denarians, but who knows?) and maybe even Outsider sponsors (n.b. "sponsored magic" is kind of a DF RPG term, but it reflects ideas from the book -- someone with no/little/lesser talent who gets their magic (or their more potent magic) from a non-human "sponsor").
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---"The Paranet" is pretty loosely-defined. Furthermore, it's an ad-hoc association of very-very-many disparate groups. Every group was originally invited because it was a Talent-centric and/or magic-facing group, and each group defines its own membership.
--- End quote ---
This.
--- Quote ---It's not clear, for example, that Marcone's organization (at least the Accorded part(s) of it) IS "part of" the Paranet... but it's not clear that they are NOT, either.
--- End quote ---
I'd thought that they were shown as separate-but-allied pretty clearly, if only because I don't see Marcone being part of such an organization and not running it, and it's pretty clear that Marcone isn't running the Paranet.
--- Quote ---But with such a disparate membership I can only expect (at least some) individuals without any magic; by the same token, I can imagine a member of the White Council who decides to work with a group of lower-level talents... and thus the WC Wizard becomes a member of the Paranet!
Rather than people being "allies of the Paranet" I would expect a group that joins to consist of Talents-and-their-allies. Those "allies" are defined by the group as part of the group, and thus they are part of the Paranet.
At least, mostly. Given the loose definitions, I don't expect ANY hard-and-fast universal rules apply... But "almost entirely" magical members seems fair, to me.
--- End quote ---
This makes sense. I'd probably divide allies vs ad-hoc members by saying that anyone part of their own distinct and separate group, with the exception of the White Council (exception made because Harry was one of the founders, and founded it partially to get rid of the "us-vs-them" mentality that minor practitioners had regarding the White Council) is an ally, whereas anyone without strong ties to a distinct group could be absorbed.
--- Quote ---Eb, for example, will have heard a LOT about her in the process of reclaiming Harry and setting his feet on the right path...
--- End quote ---
I'm not convinced of that. One of the first things we hear about Elaine, even before we meet her, is Harry saying, "I don't talk about Elaine." And certainly, neither Elaine nor Harry act as if having her name heard by the wrong people in the White Council would blow her cover.
Actually, I'm not convinced that Harry talked to McCoy much about what happened at all, because I'm not convinced that McCoy ever thought that Harry was innocent. That is, I don't know if he ever really bought the self-defense thing. I think it's more likely that McCoy thought that Harry was in the same position as Molly was, in that he screwed up but was redeemable, and stepped in because Harry was his grandson. He probably wouldn't have said this to Harry, but probably would have given enough of a subconscious impression of distrust to discourage Harry (who already doesn't share things and dislikes talking about his emotions) from talking about it too much. This would also explain his initial hostility to McCoy when they meet in Summer Knight.
--- Quote ---Murphy, known to the Chicago coven, may well be "part" of their group, for purposes of joining the Paranet. And as a clued-in Mundane, with contacts on both the Straight and Spooky sides of the street, may be an ideal person to act as the de facto "VP of Operations" under the auspices of "CEO Elaine".
--- End quote ---
This I can see. Murphy would make an awful ambassador/negotiator, but "VP of Operations" would be perfect for her.
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