The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
Mira:
For me the huge unanswered question is did Murphy or Thomas ask Harry why he won't leave the island? We know they visited him, why wasn't there a come to Jesus moment when they confronted him with a "look people are dying left and right we need you!" If there was, did Harry answer them
truthfully? He could have answered one of three ways, 1] "this is the only place where the pain in my head won't kill me." 2] "Mab will kill me if I leave, she has me watched..." 3] " The defenses of the island are in a neglected state, if I leave now, worse than the Fomen will escape.." The one thing I doubt he'd say would be he didn't give a crap about what was happening back in Chicago...
My other question is why neither never defended his reasons for not being there to Butters? Butters is a just and intelligent man, if he knew the above reasons he may get frustrated because he felt they were powerless, but he wouldn't have blamed Harry like he did.
We all know Murphy by now and it is unlikely that if she felt Harry was really needed she wouldn't have pinned him to the wall until she got an answer as to why he wasn't coming to their aid... So
here is an explanation most will not like... She may feel that they ran things pretty well when they thought Harry was dead.. May even have liked the power that brought, the importance, after no longer being a police officer, she didn't want to play second fiddle to Harry... Or for all her talk of trust, still a part of her never fully trusted Harry after he became Knight. Otherwise I cannot account for the attitude of Butters towards Harry.. There is a missing part to this puzzle...
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---You know, at the end of book 14, I think it is reasonable to assume that Butters just expect Harry to return to Chicago after a few days at the island, so he did not ask. I mean, who could think up a psychic parasite that could blow up Harry's head? Besides, even Harry thinks that Molly would have taken the parasite out soon enough. Not even Harry expect to be isolated at the island for the entire year. If this kind of thinking is also the same with Murphy and Thomas, it is also reasonable for Murphy and Thomas not to say anything. Molly is going to cure Harry soon anyway, why say so much?
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but it's been over a year. By this point, Butters should have asked, and I don't see why Thomas or Murphy wouldn't have explained.
--- Quote ---But Mab keep Molly away, probably on purpose. Days drag into weeks and weeks to months. One mistake leads to another and Butters misunderstanding grow bigger and bigger. Butters forgot to ask while Murphy and Thomas forgot to tell. After a few months, explaining would not work anymore.
--- End quote ---
Why wouldn't explaining work? I mean, imagine a parallel situation: Wizard A (who doesn't have access to Harry's emergency contacts/power sources) has always promised to defend New York. However, he hasn't been around for six months and Medical Examiner B is thinking that he's just abandoned him. However, he knows Wizard's Friend C, and when he asks her about what's happening, Wizard's Friend C says that Wizard A broke his back six months ago, and can't leave his bed! Now, to me, that seems like a really good reason not to be running around fighting bad guys, and it also seems to me that if Medical Examiner B doesn't care about this reason and blames Wizard A anyway, then Medical Examiner B is a pretty awful person.
--- Quote ---On Murphy's side. Her wavering is her dying struggle. It is only her instinctive self defense mechanism at work, which is why it is as harsh as it is transcient. CD is only about 24 hours and Murphy already fully trusted Harry again by the end of it. She wanted Harry back so much, I suspect even if Harry is an imposter or being controlled by Mab, she'll be the first to be fooled, well, as long as Harry don't show any obvious flaw. Which is probably why she need to act harsh at the start, she would not have the heart to be harsh otherwise.
--- End quote ---
I bought this in Ghost Story. It's too convenient in Cold Days. Seriously, in Ghost Story it's a problem, but one that everyone can work through when there's a crisis. In Cold Days, it only comes up when it wouldn't be a problem, and to me that doesn't feel right. Also, Murphy did not trust Harry by the end of Cold Days! That's the part where she tells him that he's already become a monster! (She also says that she will follow him to hell, true, but that's very easy to read as a statement aimed at manipulating Harry into not going down that route.)
--- Quote ---Thomas's first reaction upon meeting Harry is also not very welcoming anyway. Compare to Thomas's first greeting in the water beetle, Murphy harsh opening seems normal. At least Murphy don't suspect Harry as some kind of a shapeshifter.
--- End quote ---
Thomas's reaction was perfectly natural. He was distrusting and he was pissed, for good reason. Murphy's behavior, by contrast, comes off as manipulative. And I don't know why Murphy didn't suspect Harry of being a shapeshifter--it would have made more sense.
--- Quote ---For me the huge unanswered question is did Murphy or Thomas ask Harry why he won't leave the island? We know they visited him, why wasn't there a come to Jesus moment when they confronted him with a "look people are dying left and right we need you!" If there was, did Harry answer them
truthfully? He could have answered one of three ways, 1] "this is the only place where the pain in my head won't kill me." 2] "Mab will kill me if I leave, she has me watched..." 3] " The defenses of the island are in a neglected state, if I leave now, worse than the Fomen will escape.." The one thing I doubt he'd say would be he didn't give a crap about what was happening back in Chicago...
--- End quote ---
I'm reasonably sure Harry told Thomas, at least, about the parasite at the end of Cold Days, but I don't have my book right now so I can't check. And I had certainly been under the impression that Murphy knew about the parasite.
--- Quote ---My other question is why neither never defended his reasons for not being there to Butters? Butters is a just and intelligent man, if he knew the above reasons he may get frustrated because he felt they were powerless, but he wouldn't have blamed Harry like he did.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, this is an issue, for Murphy especially. If Butters didn't talk about his distrust of Harry in front of Thomas, he would have no way to know that there was a problem, but Skin Game made it clear that Murphy did know about Butters' issues with Harry.
--- Quote ---We all know Murphy by now and it is unlikely that if she felt Harry was really needed she wouldn't have pinned him to the wall until she got an answer as to why he wasn't coming to their aid... So
here is an explanation most will not like... She may feel that they ran things pretty well when they thought Harry was dead.. May even have liked the power that brought, the importance, after no longer being a police officer, she didn't want to play second fiddle to Harry... Or for all her talk of trust, still a part of her never fully trusted Harry after he became Knight. Otherwise I cannot account for the attitude of Butters towards Harry.. There is a missing part to this puzzle...
--- End quote ---
This may be the case. Certainly, something's off with the whole thing.
morriswalters:
Harry wouldn't tell his left hand what his right hand was doing unless he just had to. The has been an ongoing theme. If your not doing something because you have a problem, and people could use that information, you don't broadcast it. Better to leave them guessing. Butter's isn't owed anything.
Butter's suffers from pedestal disease. He put Harry up on one and Harry isn't living up to Butter's expectations. But, by the time of Skin Game Harry can't explain to Butters the reasons for the things that are happening. Anduriel is listening.
--- Quote ---I'm reasonably sure Harry told Thomas, at least, about the parasite at the end of Cold Days, but I don't have my book right now so I can't check. And I had certainly been under the impression that Murphy knew about the parasite.
--- End quote ---
Thomas knew. Don't know about Murphy.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Harry wouldn't tell his left hand what his right hand was doing unless he just had to. The has been an ongoing theme. If your not doing something because you have a problem, and people could use that information, you don't broadcast it. Better to leave them guessing. Butter's isn't owed anything.
Butter's suffers from pedestal disease. He put Harry up on one and Harry isn't living up to Butter's expectations.
--- End quote ---
Very true.
--- Quote ---But, by the time of Skin Game Harry can't explain to Butters the reasons for the things that are happening. Anduriel is listening.
--- End quote ---
Also true, but my contention is that Butters should have been able to get an explanation before that--by asking Murphy or Thomas why Harry wasn't around, or trying to get a message to him--and that I can't think of a reason for him not doing so that doesn't cast Butters in a bad light.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on May 28, 2019, 05:19:18 PM ---Harry wouldn't tell his left hand what his right hand was doing unless he just had to. The has been an ongoing theme. If your not doing something because you have a problem, and people could use that information, you don't broadcast it. Better to leave them guessing. Butter's isn't owed anything.
Butter's suffers from pedestal disease. He put Harry up on one and Harry isn't living up to Butter's expectations. But, by the time of Skin Game Harry can't explain to Butters the reasons for the things that are happening. Anduriel is listening.Thomas knew. Don't know about Murphy.
--- End quote ---
But I doubt that Butters would have kept silent! That is the point, especially with young kids being
kidnapped left right and center... At the very least he would have bitched to Murphy about it. I don't think Butters had Harry on a pedestal so much as he had always been understanding.. It is out of character for Butters to act as he did, not asking questions first as to why, just being angry. I think Bob may have had something to do with it... He has a real hate/fear thing going on with Mab, so would suspect the worst for Harry and put some ideas into Butters' head... I doubt that fear that Andriel was listening was a factor, because the problem wasn't with the Fallen, it was with the Foman .. The degree of the anger Butters displays isn't rational unless he is being fed the wrong information as to why Harry is gone, this could have come from Bob... I doubt he would have kept his mouth shut about it, I just wonder why neither Murphy nor Thomas set him straight.
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