The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Grave Peril Questions
dspringer1:
--- Quote ---1.Mavra’s role in the fight at Bianca’s party was pretty underwhelming given her power level. The things she does of note in this book are to train Bianca in vampiric magic (perhaps necromancy-based?), weaken the barrier with the spirit world & help power up Kravos enough to wreak havoc on his enemies. Despite doing all this, her only contribution to Bianca’s cause in the party is to successfully stop Harry & co. from trying to leave early. Michael is able to take her fairly easily even without the Sword, using faith magic alone. And she’s mysteriously absent from round 2 when Harry goes back to the mansion & kills Bianca, unraveling their plan. Her stated reason for being at the party is seek revenge against Michael for eliminating her scourge decades ago.
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I can think of a couple reasons for Mavara to keep her role limited
1) She is a guest of Bianca under the accords - which likely limits her action
2) She has no need to do more - or sees no advantage to doing more.
3) She is rather risk adverse
--- Quote ---2.Seeing how powerful Cowl truly is in Deadbeat, it seems odd that he would be relegated to attendant duty at the party. Also, given that Mavra’s actions kick-off the plot of Deadbeat, it’s interesting that she & Cowl are at the party without interacting much or acting against each other/ in concert
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The whole point of the party was to be able to conduct biz without alerting the White Council or other supernatural powers. A party was a perfect excuse to meet on the down-low. If Cowl starts throwing down power or even provide a noticeable presence, it destroys that subterfuge and probably alerts many powers that something weird/dangerous is happening and they better pay attention.
--- Quote ---3.At the end of the book, Bianca & Duke Ortega threaten Harry with war if he does not give up Susan. How does this benefit the Red Court??
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It is obvious that Duke Ortega was speaking to the larger audience (aka - the larger supernatural community that will hear about events) and making diplomatic points at Dresden/White Council's expense. Painting them as both rash and weak. It was equally obvious that Duke Ortega was shocked when Dresden refused to give up and started that war. Ortega misunderstood Dresden and made the wrong call. As a result, The Red Court went to war at a time and place that Ortega would never have picked.
--- Quote ---As Michael points out after the fight at the masquerade, Bianca took her best shot at Harry very publicly & failed. How is stealing Susan (who is not publicly known in the supernatural world as his girlfriend) a commensurate gain?
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The spat between Dresden and Bianca is clearly a PERSONAL conflict. Bianca is doing this to get revenge on Harry because she understands him enough to know that this outcome (Susan taken as a vampire) would be devastating to Harry -- and Bianca is confident that she has forced a situation where Harry either has to eat it (a great public victory) or Harry gets to die failing to stop it (a great public and private victory). She cannot loose - unless of course Harry kills her minions, burns down her house and kills her. But who could have seen that happening :)
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: kbrizzle on April 03, 2019, 06:47:02 AM ---Seeing how powerful Cowl truly is in Deadbeat, it seems odd that he would be relegated to attendant duty at the party. Also, given that Mavra’s actions kick-off the plot of Deadbeat, it’s interesting that she & Cowl are at the party without interacting much or acting against each other/ in concert
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--- Quote from: dspringer1 on May 08, 2019, 11:26:44 PM ---The whole point of the party was to be able to conduct biz without alerting the White Council or other supernatural powers. A party was a perfect excuse to meet on the down-low. If Cowl starts throwing down power or even provide a noticeable presence, it destroys that subterfuge and probably alerts many powers that something weird/dangerous is happening and they better pay attention.
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It's possible that Cowl and Mavra were working together or communicated with one another during the events of Grave Peril. It's also possible that Mavra was directly responsible for bringing in Cowl and Kumori to act as Bianca's flunkies; and I'll get to why I think that may be the case further down.
However, I think it is also possible that Cowl and Mavra have different long-term objectives. Meaning they were only allies of convenience; like Kemmler's disciples, and at some point their interests might diverge from one another.
--- Quote from: dspringer1 on May 08, 2019, 11:26:44 PM ---The spat between Dresden and Bianca is clearly a PERSONAL conflict. Bianca is doing this to get revenge on Harry ...
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Yes to pretty much everything you said, even the parts I edited out. Now here's something I've argued for years. Bianca was a relatively minor power in her own right. Even the promotion she was celebrating didn't make her powerful enough (IMO) that she'd be making deals with Outsiders to hand out Nemfected presents to her guests. Her interests appeared to be local rather than global and her motivations against Harry were personal. Think of the target that was painted on Bianca's back by handing out the tainted items. Remember what Lea said about how she owed Bianca payback for giving her the tainted Athame. I think Bianca was a patsy and either Cowl or both Cowl and Mavra were responsible for the Bianca's gifts being tainted. They didn't plan on Harry knocking off Bianca, but when it happened it made things better for them. Bianca wasn't around to deny that she was responsible for the tainted items. (By the way, Bianca being set up as a patsy helps explain why Mavra didn't appear to be that powerful in the fight at Bianca's party. She wasn't on Bianca's side, she was testing Michael without his sword and Harry without his full strength. When she didn't get an easy victory she wasn't going to go all out just for Bianca's sake.)
It has been stated or suggested that Outsider magic is what animates the Black Court, or perhaps it was what first animated the Black Court into existence. This would explain Mavra's willingness to help the Outsiders. They are to her; and her kind, progenitors, parents of a sort. However, it's more difficult to understand why Cowl or any wizard would make a deal with Outsiders, outside of being Nemfected themselves. In Dead Beat both Cowl and Kumori spoke of a New Order arising, but knowing the Outsiders are making a move for power and deciding to throw in with them seems very questionable to me. Jim has yet to explain why anyone would trust the Outsiders to keep any deals they may have made.
It's more easy to understand how Cowl and Mavra may have become allies. In Dead Beat Bob explained how Kemmler had friends in most of the vampire courts and with other supernatural bad guys. It's possible Kemmler introduced his students to some of his contacts. From both Kemmler and Mavra, Cowl would have learned of the Outsider's plans. What made him join their team is an open question. Also, it's possible that the attempt to perform the Darkhallow wasn't simply aimed at the eliminating the Senior Council of the White Council, it was an attempt by Cowl to gain enough power so he wouldn't have to trust the Outsiders to keep their word. He'd have been strong enough to demand that they keep their word.
I wonder what it would take to make Harry re-think the events of Bianca's party. Once he does, he should be smart enough to realize that Lea would want to know who was really responsible for driving her so crazy Mab had to turn her into a Sidhecicle in order to cure her. Now that I think about it, Mab might also want to know who was indirectly responsible for Nemfecting Maeve. Harry has some juicy material to trade with Lea, and possibly with Mab, and he doesn't even realize it.
Mira:
Bianca, as my brother in law would say, "knows just enough to be dumb.." She had just enough
power or was allowed to have just enough power to think she was a real up and comer and craved more. This made her the perfect cat's paw...
Lea had this in common with Bianca, she was second only to Mab, but that wasn't enough.. There are signs of it from the first time we meet her. No, I don't think she was infected before she got the Knife, but her desire for more power made her the perfect dupe for the Enemy and a way in to the Winter Court through the Knife... By the time Mab discovered what was going down it was almost too late.. Lea was treatable, but Maeve wasn't...
I am not sure that Cowl and Mavra are responsible for the Knife being tainted, oh they knew, but I doubt they were behind the plot..
Kindler:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on May 13, 2019, 05:36:47 AM ---However, it's more difficult to understand why Cowl or any wizard would make a deal with Outsiders, outside of being Nemfected themselves. In Dead Beat both Cowl and Kumori spoke of a New Order arising, but knowing the Outsiders are making a move for power and deciding to throw in with them seems very questionable to me. Jim has yet to explain why anyone would trust the Outsiders to keep any deals they may have made.
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Personally, I think that Cowl, Peabody, and any other mortal wizards "allying" with the Outsiders isn't what it looks like. I think they're trying to use the Outsiders, including Nemesis infection, as weapons. They're trying to upset the natural order so that they can seize enough power to create a new...well, in their minds, it's probably a utopia. But the Old Guard has to go, and this is one of the ways to do that. I think, anyway.
ClintACK:
--- Quote from: Kindler on May 13, 2019, 05:18:51 PM ---Personally, I think that Cowl, Peabody, and any other mortal wizards "allying" with the Outsiders isn't what it looks like. I think they're trying to use the Outsiders, including Nemesis infection, as weapons. They're trying to upset the natural order so that they can seize enough power to create a new...well, in their minds, it's probably a utopia. But the Old Guard has to go, and this is one of the ways to do that. I think, anyway.
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Yep. Kumori even tells us about part of it, in her conversation with Dresden in Dead Beat -- imagine if no one ever had to die. It's a huge idea, and not hard to see why someone might think it worth a few broken eggs to make that omelet. Trillions of human lives against maybe a hundred thousand at the dark hallow -- a hundred thousand human lives that would have ended within a century in any case.
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