The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Grave Peril Questions

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spiritofair:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 14, 2019, 12:51:47 AM ---Fair enough, can't always be sure how well versed people are in Christian theology. I suspect that the actual phrase is either one that Jim created specifically for Michael, or one that is quite uncommon and perhaps only exists in certain communities (such as the one Jim grew up in). I too found little reference to that exact phrase.

Although you will note that the full phrase that Michael uses is "Blood of the Dragon, that old Serpent" which is strikingly similar to 12:7-12 Book of Revelation. On balance of probabilities it is more likely that this is what is in reference to, as nowhere else does anyone ever use that phrase or discuss the connection between the Black Court and Dragons.

The thing is, it isn't to be taken literally. Otherwise why not use that phrase with Ferrovax in the earlier scene? Being that there is an actual capital-D Dragon in the room with them...wouldn't that make more sense?

Also if Michael really were referencing the connection to Drakul, assuming he actually knew of that connection (which only exists as WOJ, and a indirect connection that Ebenezar mentioned), why have he and Harry never discussed the origins of the Black Court before? Or Drakul for that matter? Harry (especially this early in the series) barely even knows who the Vampire Courts are (other than surface information - remember Thomas fills him in during the party). Let alone who Drakul is, which he doesn't even understand the difference between Dracula and Drakul until Ebenezar tells him 3 books later in Blood Rites.

--- End quote ---
Thanks for all of the feedback. I get what you and Bad Alias are saying about it perhaps being biblical, especially since it is coming from Michael, but man, with an Actual Dragon, i.e. Ferrovax, in the scene -- and this scene being one of the pivotal scenes, if not THE PIVOTAL SCENE in the entire series thus far (it sets up SOOOO much) -- I find it hard to believe that Jim just happened to have Michael say "Blood of the Dragon - that old serpent", randomly. Unless it's a red herring, and considering how important this scene is in setting things up I just don't see that, I think it means more.

I think it's safe to assume Michael knows all about black court vampires and their origins.

I think the unhuman thing that is in Drakul is a Dragon. It just makes too much sense.

g33k:

--- Quote from: spiritofair on August 14, 2019, 05:09:53 PM --- ... I think it's safe to assume Michael knows all about black court vampires and their origins ...
--- End quote ---
If there's something particular about BCV's and some sort of Hellish/Satanic origin... then yeah, that seems likely.

Otherwise, not so much; the Knights are not Encyclopedia's of the Supernatural.  Harry, in general, knows a LOT more than Michael.  Michael, otoh, knows a LOT more than Harry... specifically about Denarians (Harry didn't even know that Denarians existed, until they almost killed him).

Michael didn't particularly grasp that the Outsiders he fought (offstage, entering at the end of Proven Guilty) were anything other than your run-of-the-mill supernatural gribblies.


--- Quote from: spiritofair on August 14, 2019, 05:09:53 PM --- Thanks for all of the feedback. I get what you and Bad Alias are saying about it perhaps being biblical, especially since it is coming from Michael...
--- End quote ---
This.

Michael, alluding to a scriptural text?  Don't get caught up in the word "Dragon" as being one of those Nomovax beings, this is using "Dragon" in its Biblical context; count on it, because Michael.

He's outright saying that Lucifer is part of Mavra's origin.
 
Which is saying that Drakul is associated with Lucifer... or maybe that his sonny-boy made a literal Deal With The Devil in the creation of the Black Court.

kbrizzle:
@spiritofair
I suspect that’s exactly what Drakul is - although my WAG is that he was Nfected as a Dragon & being trapped as a human was the way to contain him. Dracula, his half-scion son attempted a ritual to unleash his inner supernatural nature, however due to interference from the Outside, he ends up becoming a Black court Vamp - the first.
A lot of this comes from the fact that the undead nature of the BCV is reminiscent of power from the Outside & the old WoJ referenced by @Yuillegan.

Regarding the issue of Bianca/Ortega taking Susan from Harry
My own theory is that the RCV’s chief complaint is that Harry caused the death of Rachel, Bianca’s ‘special friend’ in StF - as Bianca says at the ball in GP, she feels that Harry’s actions necessitated her death (Ramps’ own twisted POV). Her attack on Harry at her ball in GP is thus revenge. So despite being unable to kill him, taking Susan would compensate her for the loss of Rachel.
However it still doesn’t address the fact that from an outside perspective (especially those who view humans as ‘chattel’), Bianca took 2 years to make alliances & set Harry up in GP at her own center of power - despite which she was unsuccessful especially in front of the likes of Ferrovax & Lea etc., who could care less about the fate of the wizard’s ‘pet mortal’ - they would focus on the fact that the Ramps tried to assert their dominance over Chicago but were unable to take 1 young member of the White Council in their own stronghold.
To a wise & experienced ancient being, this would portend that the Reds are overconfident & that despite their new alliances with questionable characters, an individual White Council wizard is not to be underestimated. They would likely not throw in with the Reds in their quest for a new world order (as we see in the following books - the Ramps don’t really have too many allies outside the Outsiders & the Black council - even the other Vamp courts refuse to back them)

@Mira
I don’t know that Ortega was a pawn. From what we can surmise, the Ortegas (Paolo & Ariana) were the faction in the RCV that were not Nfected/ thrilled with the alliance with the Black council. Their plans were the most sensible, & seemed to be directed towards the overall good of the Ramps, however Ariana’s attempt at a coup gets shut down by Harry.
I suspect the Red King’s bloodthirst is a result of being Nfected.

Kindler:

--- Quote from: ClintACK on May 14, 2019, 10:13:58 AM ---Yep. Kumori even tells us about part of it, in her conversation with Dresden in Dead Beat -- imagine if no one ever had to die. It's a huge idea, and not hard to see why someone might think it worth a few broken eggs to make that omelet. Trillions of human lives against maybe a hundred thousand at the dark hallow -- a hundred thousand human lives that would have ended within a century in any case.

--- End quote ---

I wonder if, in gaining enough power to end death, Kumori may even believe that those sacrificed in the ritual could be returned to life afterward. Necromantic magic kinda makes the whole concept of death a little squishier than it is in reality.

Bad Alias:

--- Quote from: spiritofair on August 14, 2019, 05:09:53 PM ---Thanks for all of the feedback. I get what you and Bad Alias are saying about it perhaps being biblical, especially since it is coming from Michael, but man, with an Actual Dragon, i.e. Ferrovax, in the scene -- and this scene being one of the pivotal scenes, if not THE PIVOTAL SCENE in the entire series thus far (it sets up SOOOO much) -- I find it hard to believe that Jim just happened to have Michael say "Blood of the Dragon - that old serpent", randomly. Unless it's a red herring, and considering how important this scene is in setting things up I just don't see that, I think it means more.

I think it's safe to assume Michael knows all about black court vampires and their origins.

I think the unhuman thing that is in Drakul is a Dragon. It just makes too much sense.

--- End quote ---
It certainly is an odd phrase with some odd context.

@kbrizzle: I think Bianca's behavior with regards to Rachel was her succumbing to bloodlust. I get the impression that basically all RCV have this and one of the major factors in obtaining (or losing) status in the RC is controlling it.

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