Other Jimness > Codex Alera Spoilers
A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
belgarion:
One thought so far in this discussion:
Amara and Bernard leave the vicinity of Kalara, fly east and land in Attica on their way to Alera Imperia. It's toward the end of CaF on page 447 of the hard cover edition. The alternative map won't work with the text.
"Amara lifted them both into the air. It was far more work than she would have had to do if she had ben alone, but she wasn't trying to set any speed records. Even so, only a day of travel carried them into the lands surrounding neighboring Attica, and to a traveler's inn beside one of the causeways."
After re-reading PF, I think your are right in terms of the Sea of Ice being an Inland Sea. That's the only way I can think of for the Marat and the Icemen being able to trade. Neither race appears to have sea travel abilitiy that we've seen.
M
belgarion:
Revised the BW map:
Sea of Ice is now an inland sea. Left Phrygia and Antillus flopped. Can always put them back the way they were.
Moved Ceres, Kalare, Atticus etc. farther south. Also moved the Calderon Valley farther south.
http://flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/3197405232/
M
Spyndel:
--- Quote from: belgarion on January 14, 2009, 06:43:01 PM ---Revised the BW map:
http://flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/3197405232/
--- End quote ---
Hey, looking good! I really hope you dont mind, but I made a few notes, and just redlined them over your map. Its always annoying when someone does that, but its just easier to communicate that way...I apologize.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6126/notesae3.jpg
1) This is what I was speaking about in my previous post. If Phyrigia is indeed "thousands of miles from the sea" ( I really have trouble reconciling this...maybe Max was exaggerating, but we have no way of knowing), we're going to have to significantly alter our image of the Aleran/ Iceman boundary and shieldwall. One way to push Phrydgia further inland would be to move Placida up and out as a buffer between the coast and Phrydgia.
Regardless, it forces us to define the shieldwall as something that does *not* run coast to coast, as otherwise, if there are only two shieldwall cities, then both of them would *have* to be adjacent to water. Perhaps the shieldwall is an earthcrafted barrier bookended by one or two naturally impassable mountain ranges.
2) Ceres evidently needs to be in the Southwest, and its still slightly north of Alera Imperia right now. In fact, I think all the "southern" cities need to shuffle counter clockwise a bit, and Alera Imperia need to move further north a bit in order to make the "southern" region easier to define. Theres another reason to move Alera Imperia a tad bit north as well, as Ill note in #3.
3.) I think Alera Imperia needs to get bumped up slightly north for a couple reasons. One, if you move Placida over a bit, it can move up and take over some of that vacated space. Two, it would make it easier to define Ceres as a southern/southwestern city. Three, the whole issue of Amara's flight... I still think Riva/Calderon need to come down a bit to make it possible for Amara to have flown over the sea of ice.
But check this out. I read the passage you cited in AF about how Amara flew over the Sea of Ice to get to Calderon/Garrison. But it says she flew along the *coastline* to the Sea of Ice, not necessarily across the water. Since she was serving as a liason between the Crown and Bernard, her most probable origin point was the Capitol. This is easier to reconcile...basically, as long as the Sea of Ice coast is more or less level with Alera Imperia, or maybe a little lower, its easy to see this flight.
4)Aquataine didnt make Jim's list of Southern Cities, so I think it has to come up to at least even with Alera Imperia, or a little north, and Rhodes moved a little west and up to ensure it stays adjacent to Aquataine at some point. It might require a little fidgeting with Riva.
5) In FoC, Amara describes Calderon as being the valley *beyond* the isthmus/ landbridge into the marat territory, not *on* it. More of a frontier. This might be your intention, but the way the land gets skinny again after Calderon confuses the issue a bit.
Anyways, great continued work...I'm sorry for the notes...feel free to point out any errors in my thinking. I think we'll find we're going to have to alter the shape of the land in some places to make all this stuff work.
belgarion:
--- Quote from: Spyndel on January 14, 2009, 08:24:05 PM ---
1) This is what I was speaking about in my previous post. If Phyrigia is indeed "thousands of miles from the sea" ( I really have trouble reconciling this...maybe Max was exaggerating, but we have no way of knowing), we're going to have to significantly alter our image of the Aleran/ Iceman boundary and shieldwall. One way to push Phrydgia further inland would be to move Placida up and out as a buffer between the coast and Phrydgia.
Regardless, it forces us to define the shieldwall as something that does *not* run coast to coast, as otherwise, if there are only two shieldwall cities, then both of them would *have* to be adjacent to water. Perhaps the shieldwall is an earthcrafted barrier bookended by one or two naturally impassable mountain ranges.
--- End quote ---
1) Hmmm. The Romans were famous for building long fortification walls, and the Alerans are Romans. I don't think it's out of the realm of probability/possibility that they would construct and defend a wall that long. Think of the great wall of China.
Thing is, I think each high lord would require direct access to Aleria Imperia without having to go through someone else's city state. The problem with that is Kalare who is pinched into the west coast and has Atticus in the way.
Originally, of course we had Phyrigia and Antillus reversed which could put Phyrigia a thousand miles from the sea (Max doesn't state which sea), I also had both the cities much closer together toward the center of the two states.
--- Quote ---2) Ceres evidently needs to be in the Southwest, and its still slightly north of Alera Imperia right now. In fact, I think all the "southern" cities need to shuffle counter clockwise a bit, and Alera Imperia need to move further north a bit in order to make the "southern" region easier to define. Theres another reason to move Alera Imperia a tad bit north as well, as Ill note in #3.
--- End quote ---
2)
Problem with this is that in CuF, it's stated that if the Cannim go over the Elinarch and Kalare forces take Ceres there is nothing to stop them all from hitting Aleria Imperia. The way you have the red line drawn, they'd have to go through Kalare to get to the capitol. Kalare was meglamaniac but he wouldn't have made that mistake. He wouldn't want the Cannim anywhere near Kalare city.
Another thing is at the beginning of CuF, Tavi is with Magnus in the ruins of Appia in "The Vale", then to the First Alerans still training in "The Vale" and then to the Elinarch. The Cannim are protecting Kalare's norther flank. We need to think more about this.
And also in CuF, it's stated that 2 of Kalare's seven legions hold the passes to the Black Hills which are west of Ceres and Alera Imperial.
Oh and Amara flew 3000 miles from the capitol to the legion camp east of Kalare in three days (direct).
--- Quote ---3.) I think Alera Imperia needs to get bumped up slightly north for a couple reasons. One, if you move Placida over a bit, it can move up and take over some of that vacated space. Two, it would make it easier to define Ceres as a southern/southwestern city. Three, the whole issue of Amara's flight... I still think Riva/Calderon need to come down a bit to make it possible for Amara to have flown over the sea of ice.
But check this out. I read the passage you cited in AF about how Amara flew over the Sea of Ice to get to Calderon/Garrison. But it says she flew along the *coastline* to the Sea of Ice, not necessarily across the water. Since she was serving as a liason between the Crown and Bernard, her most probable origin point was the Capitol. This is easier to reconcile...basically, as long as the Sea of Ice coast is more or less level with Alera Imperia, or maybe a little lower, its easy to see this flight.
--- End quote ---
3) Well, this could work. I originally had Aleria Imperia farther north and the consensus was that it should be where it is now. I'd have to look in the pdf files to determine why we moved it further south.
--- Quote ---4)Aquataine didnt make Jim's list of Southern Cities, so I think it has to come up to at least even with Alera Imperia, or a little north, and Rhodes moved a little west and up to ensure it stays adjacent to Aquataine at some point. It might require a little fidgeting with Riva.
--- End quote ---
4) Rhodes occupies the land formerly occupied by the Children of the Sun. They were forced into the southern most reaches of the Aleran continent and the jungles down there. We have Rhodes as the southern most city state because of that. Thing is in CuF, " Aquitaine, Rhodes and Parcia will be joining forces to retake the bridges over the Gaul." Page 137 Hardcover. Actually, a lot of geography is contained in those few pages, 135 through 137 or so.
"The Crown Legion, however, was on maneuvers south of the Capital, and I ordered them to your aid within an hour of the first attack. They've been force-marching through the night, and Sir Miles should be arriving with his men within hours." Also on 137, CuF. Ceres needs to be east of Kalare.
--- Quote ---5) In FoC, Amara describes Calderon as being the valley *beyond* the isthmus/ landbridge into the marat territory, not *on* it. More of a frontier. This might be your intention, but the way the land gets skinny again after Calderon confuses the issue a bit.
--- End quote ---
5) Thing is the land does get skinny again at the end of the valley. The Garrision blocks the Marat from coming into the valley and is situated at the opening between two mountain ranges. That's why the garrison is effective. We can reshape things a little but it's still a land bridge according to Jim. The valley is contained in the land bridge. The valley is west of the garrison not east of it.
Edited to fix quotes. --Priscilla
Spyndel:
I'll just rebut a couple quick points, and defer to you on the rest.
--- Quote from: belgarion on January 15, 2009, 01:26:42 AM ---Originally, of course we had Phyrigia and Antillus reversed which could put Phyrigia a thousand miles from the sea (Max doesn't state which sea), I also had both the cities much closer together toward the center of the two states.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but its a remark concerning another characters seasickness, and how its possible for him to get seasick. So he's not referring to a specific sea so much, as suggesting Phrygia is "thousand of miles" from *water*. This suggests that no matter where we put Antillus, east or west, Phrygia has to be more centrally located, and "landlocked", which is a little tougher to visualize.( If Phrygia is touching a coastline, it *cannot* be "thousands of miles" from the sea...it cannot be a single mile from the sea).
The only I way I can see to make this true, is if Antillus is east, to bring Placida up as a buffer between the coast and Phrygia, and if Antillus is west, to stretch Riva up as a buffer. In either case, that would make one of those two cites touch the Icemen Border, but we know theyre not a shieldwall city. In that case, they probably need to bump up against some sort of impassable mountains that are not the shieldwall proper.
--- Quote from: belgarion on January 15, 2009, 01:26:42 AM ---Thing is the land does get skinny again at the end of the valley. The Garrision blocks the Marat from coming into the valley and is situated at the opening between two mountain ranges. That's why the garrison is effective. We can reshape things a little but it's still a land bridge according to Jim. The valley is contained in the land bridge. The valley is west of the garrison not east of it.
--- End quote ---
I'm afraid this is just an area where we would differ if I were drawing the map. Theres no reason it has to get skinny again...a "valley" is a U shaped depression in between mountains, so Garrison can still block the entrance fine if its situated between two mountain masses that are wider on either side. Calderon valley is simply the only path *through" those mountains.
If the valley, though, is *beyond* the isthmus, as Amara states, it means its west of Garrison, but "after" the skinniest point. If it gets skinny again after Calderon, it suggests that the isthmus is continuing beyond Calderon. It can still be a "land Bridge" between the 2 landmasses, without tapering it again after the isthmus.
A minor point to be sure. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
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