The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Rewriting Lawbreaker Powers
nadia.skylark:
So, I don't really like the Lawbreaker power because I feel like it discourages people (or at least discourages me) from playing a character like Harry or Molly, who broke a Law once but is trying to reform. If you're not breaking whatever Law a bunch in game, then it's just wasted refresh. I was thinking about just treating breaking the Laws like an extreme consequence, but then I thought that it might work better if I expanded the Lawbreaker power to give bonuses to things that weren't just breaking the Laws. For example, Lawbreaker (1st) would give a bonus to all violent magic, not just First Law violations. Do you think that that would work, or are there problems with it that I haven't thought of?
backseat_adventurer:
Okay, first I have to admit my group and I are pretty new to the DFRPG. We're still working the kinks out of our interpretation of the rules. Now that disclaimer done, I'll get back to answering your question.
The Lawbreaker powers do appear to be very black and white. Do this and you are forever stained etc. This can seem rather limiting but as you've said in the novel canon, law breakers can seek redemption or to better themselves. I think, however, it's a bit of a toss-up about how successful they can be.
Molly walks a pretty grey line with her use of mind magic and then stepped over the line in Ghost Story. Harry killed Justin and has been a mostly good boy since, although, he has deployed potentially lethal magical force against humans. That it didn't end up lethal... well there was quite the element of luck. Also, his resolve to protect his love ones has been strongly implied to know no bounds.
Does this mean once a Lawbreaker always a Lawbreaker? That's more complicated.
Perhaps we should also consider what Lawbreaker means from a more than mechanical POV. I've heard it described in the novels and online, that the power represents the practitioner's belief they have the Right to do what they did. To mess with someone's mind, to take a life etc. I think this makes sense. Until a practitioner can truly shed that belief, not just admit they did wrong, and truly decide never to do it again, they would be Lawbreakers. Both Molly and Harry acknowledge what they did was wrong but they'd both do it anyway if they thought it justified.
For our table, removal of the Lawbreaker power means lots of RP, change of an Aspect and repayment equal to the Lawbreaker refresh with GM permission. If they break the same or a different Law, they get the old Lawbreaker power and a new one. This may mean the character gets permanently taken out as an NPC.
Of course, your mileage may differ. You get to decide if or when someone no longer deserves the Lawbreaker power.
As for 'adding on' to the Lawbreaker power, I'd strongly suggest you avoid that. To expand the power suggests that magic innately condemns actions other than law breaking. It also adds a mechanical bonus greater than what Refinement generally gives. Essentially, it's a floating 'specialization' to all types combat magic, to use your example.
Everyone would want to break laws with that kind of reward. Don't forget that the Lawbreaker power is meant to act as a mechanical penalty by removing a player's ability to tailor their character by choosing where to invest refresh, raising the risk of taking the character out and on the RP level, opening them to punishment from the Council.
If you do want to be able to facilitate a redemption arc with a character, that's fine. Just work out with the player how to do it and what rules or thresholds you want to employ. Maybe ask the player to make their Lawbreaking and search for absolution be expressed in their Aspects. Have them invoked. The Lawbreaking should be made meaningful to the character and thus player, not just a convenient bonus with minor RP consequences.
Deadmanwalking:
I apply Lawbreaker to two things it does not officially apply to:
#1: Things that should break the law, but don't due to a technicality (ie: killing nonhuman foes, reading someone's mind consensually, raising animal zombies, etc.) receive the same bonus as actually breaking the Law. This is slightly less broad than allowing Lawbreaker (First) on all violent magic (since it only allows it on killing specifically), but I've found it perfectly reasonable.
#2: Predicting or analyzing the behavior of others with the same Lawbreaker stunt (or other appropriate people at GM discretion). Molly demonstrated this in Turn Coat, and it's potentially a very useful little bonus.
These seem like a good way to handle it to me, and useful without being overpowered. And, frankly, I'm not sure 'everyone wanting it' on a mechanical level is a bad thing. There should be some temptation to falling to the dark side, after all...
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Don't forget that the Lawbreaker power is meant to act as a mechanical penalty by removing a player's ability to tailor their character by choosing where to invest refresh,
--- End quote ---
This is what I have a problem with. I don't like the idea of having to deal with a penalty because I want to role-play a specific type of character. As a lawbreaker, my character already has to deal with narrative consequences (wardens chasing them, doom of Damocles, etc.) and compels to the changed aspect. I don't like the idea of being forced to spend refresh to no benefit.
--- Quote ---As for 'adding on' to the Lawbreaker power, I'd strongly suggest you avoid that. To expand the power suggests that magic innately condemns actions other than law breaking.
--- End quote ---
The idea wasn't that it condemns other actions, but that it benefits actions that are related. For example, the Lawbreaker (5th) power according to RAW would give no benefit to raising an animal from the dead, only humans. I would expand it to encompass animals as well, plus other forms of necromancy. That way the character still has to deal with the temptation to use necromancy, but there are differing levels of consequences. Animal necromancy, for example, wouldn't earn you another count of Lawbreaker, but might mean that the Wardens try to chop your head off unless you can come up with a really good reason for it (or might encourage them to investigate you and find out your first instance of Lawbreaking).
--- Quote ---It also adds a mechanical bonus greater than what Refinement generally gives. Essentially, it's a floating 'specialization' to all types combat magic, to use your example.
--- End quote ---
This is what I was worried about. Do you think it would be more balanced if it was only +1 power to attack spells? This would seem to fit narratively by encouraging you to use your power more recklessly, and fallout would be a good source of compels to have you 'accidentally' kill someone else, or to, for example, burn a dead body and have the wardens come after you thinking you've killed someone else.
--- Quote ---I apply Lawbreaker to two things it does not officially apply to:
#1: Things that should break the law, but don't due to a technicality (ie: killing nonhuman foes, reading someone's mind consensually, raising animal zombies, etc.) receive the same bonus as actually breaking the Law. This is slightly less broad than allowing Lawbreaker (First) on all violent magic (since it only allows it on killing specifically), but I've found it perfectly reasonable.
#2: Predicting or analyzing the behavior of others with the same Lawbreaker stunt (or other appropriate people at GM discretion). Molly demonstrated this in Turn Coat, and it's potentially a very useful little bonus.
--- End quote ---
Great ideas!
--- Quote ---And, frankly, I'm not sure 'everyone wanting it' on a mechanical level is a bad thing. There should be some temptation to falling to the dark side, after all...
--- End quote ---
:)
backseat_adventurer:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on March 13, 2019, 03:20:37 AM ---This is what I have a problem with. I don't like the idea of having to deal with a penalty because I want to role-play a specific type of character. As a lawbreaker, my character already has to deal with narrative consequences (wardens chasing them, doom of Damocles, etc.) and compels to the changed aspect. I don't like the idea of being forced to spend refresh to no benefit.
--- End quote ---
Honestly, I think I see it as something more akin to what Changelings can do. They can RP their Choice and gain access to other powers but it potentially takes them out of play. This is the practitioner/wizard version of surrendering themselves for power. I think it makes sense there is a mechanical refresh penalty. Besides, there are benefits to the power, so it's not really a big loss. Power at a price, right?
--- Quote ---The idea wasn't that it condemns other actions, but that it benefits actions that are related. For example, the Lawbreaker (5th) power according to RAW would give no benefit to raising an animal from the dead, only humans. I would expand it to encompass animals as well, plus other forms of necromancy. That way the character still has to deal with the temptation to use necromancy, but there are differing levels of consequences. Animal necromancy, for example, wouldn't earn you another count of Lawbreaker, but might mean that the Wardens try to chop your head off unless you can come up with a really good reason for it (or might encourage them to investigate you and find out your first instance of Lawbreaking).
--- End quote ---
I can see what you are getting at about the temptation of power etc. but I think that is better dealt with by invoking aspects and good RP. Giving a concrete mechanical benefit to a wider range of actions or targets for one refresh... feels imbalanced. More about that below.
--- Quote --- This is what I was worried about. Do you think it would be more balanced if it was only +1 power to attack spells? This would seem to fit narratively by encouraging you to use your power more recklessly, and fallout would be a good source of compels to have you 'accidentally' kill someone else, or to, for example, burn a dead body and have the wardens come after you thinking you've killed someone else.
--- End quote ---
I think it's still too broad. All attack spells, on all possible targets is huge. Evocation grants 3 elements. Break a single law and that's essentially a +3 power for only one refresh and a few RP consequences. For things like necromancy or biomancy... it gets a little harder, too. Raising a zombie via thaumaturgy technically isn't an attack spell, so what is the equivalent?
Also, as I was saying before, the power reads "Gain a +1 bonus to any spellcasting roll whenever using magic in a way which would break the specified Law of Magic". This suggests it's the breaking of the Law itself that grants the bonus. If the Law isn't broken, you don't get the power, therefore, you shouldn't get the bonus for targeting non-humans. Unless somehow the scope of the Law itself widens if you break a law, which we now it doesn't.
Really, the 'human only' catch and linking it to the act that breaks the law, are the prime ways Lawbreaker is limited. Removing those limitations in a game that has combat with non-humans as a core part of play is problematic. I do still feel that the Lawbreaker powers give a nice, situational bonus, representing the temptation of power, with an RP penalty which can be handled by negotiation with your GM. Tacking on too much more makes it far too overpowered for a one refresh power. It's almost the power equivalent of a stunt.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version