The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
Mira:
--- Quote from: peregrine on March 15, 2019, 09:08:16 PM ---But later, we see the difference between "let the world burn" and "let Molly burn."
He said that, and he did that, but that's because he was being an idiot without really thinking about what that would actually mean.
--- End quote ---
Precisely, amen... Nor did he really act upon that... What happened in the aftermath of C.I. wasn't because Harry really intended for the world to burn or failed to care if it did.. If anyone is to blame it is the Red King who set the whole thing up in the first place. He never thought through the idea that both Harry and Eb were first rate wizards and if anyone one could foil his plans for revenge, they could. Nor did he plan on the child's mother being there and willing to give up her life, which saved her child and wiped out the Red Court.. Also before this all went down there was no one warning Harry that if he succeeds in wiping out the Red Court some badder asses would step in to take up the slack..
--- Quote ---Cut to the chase. Had Harry learned basic reproductive physiology there would have been no Maggie to have to rescue. This would be first cause. If Susan had to die it was this choice, made by the two of them, that set it up. Once there, given the setup, it would have been morally suspect if he hadn't killed Susan.
--- End quote ---
Actually I believe he had, but to be fair between the vamp pheromone laced saliva that even half vamp Susan gave off at the time and his own physically weakened condition, plus the hots they still felt for one another, the manual on how to put on a condom kind of went out the window... Like most sex, it was a mutual thing, Susan wasn't demanding protection either at that point... Though to be fair, she wasn't herself either because of the vamp influence...
morriswalters:
They weren't two 16 year olds in back of the minivan. That seven minutes cost one family everything, and almost destroyed Molly. Not to mention all of the human sacrifices that took place to set up the ritual. And if memory serves me correctly Harry had to plan to make a restraint that could hold Susan(Death Masks). Something about unicorn hair. Original idea courtesy of Molly, I believe, who suggests using handcuffs. And Harry had nightmares that revolved around what might happen, thus the rope.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---But later, we see the difference between "let the world burn" and "let Molly burn."
He said that, and he did that, but that's because he was being an idiot without really thinking about what that would actually mean.
--- End quote ---
Well, yes. But on the other hand, if it was the only way to save his daughter then I'm not remarkably convinced he wouldn't do the same again, so...
--- Quote ---Precisely, amen... Nor did he really act upon that...
--- End quote ---
What? He was told specifically that if he kept pushing this, he might cause a disaster, and then proceeded to keep pushing until he caused a disaster. How is that not acting upon what he said? He didn't say "I'm going to set out to destroy the world," he said, "I'm going to rescue my daughter no matter what the consequences are."
--- Quote ---What happened in the aftermath of C.I. wasn't because Harry really intended for the world to burn or failed to care if it did.. If anyone is to blame it is the Red King who set the whole thing up in the first place. He never thought through the idea that both Harry and Eb were first rate wizards and if anyone one could foil his plans for revenge, they could. Nor did he plan on the child's mother being there and willing to give up her life, which saved her child and wiped out the Red Court..
--- End quote ---
Victim blaming much? The Red King is responsible for a lot of awful things, but I don't think we can legitimately say that he was 100% responsible for the genocide of his own species. I mean, Harry did have other options: both Susan and the Eebs pointed them out. He just objected to them.
--- Quote ---Also before this all went down there was no one warning Harry that if he succeeds in wiping out the Red Court some badder asses would step in to take up the slack..
--- End quote ---
Um, yes there was. Harry's "let the world burn" thing was said directly in response to Murphy warning him that if he kept pushing then really bad things might happen. He might not have known the specifics, but he was warned as to the risks.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on March 16, 2019, 12:32:10 AM ---Victim blaming much? The Red King is responsible for a lot of awful things, but I don't think we can legitimately say that he was 100% responsible for the genocide of his own species. I mean, Harry did have other options: both Susan and the Eebs pointed them out. He just objected to them.
--- End quote ---
I mean "Victim Blaming" seems like a questionable way to refer to someone having kidnapping a Girl and attempting to murder her entire family backfire on him.
And Harry's only other 'option' was to give up his daughter to the vampires and let them familicide him. What a great choice, I can't imagine why he didn't go for it.
Harry's plan at Chicken Pizza was to go out there, publicly call out Arianna to force a fight, kill her, take Maggie and go.
It was the Red King that forced his hand because "I R GR8 VMPYR, I NO NEED DEAL WID DRT WZRD!!!!!"
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---I mean "Victim Blaming" seems like a questionable way to refer to someone having kidnapping a Girl and attempting to murder her entire family backfire on him.
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying that what he did wasn't awful, just that he isn't the only one responsible for what happened: Arianna, Martin, Susan, and Harry all have some responsibility as well.
--- Quote ---And Harry's only other 'option' was to give up his daughter to the vampires and let them familicide him. What a great choice, I can't imagine why he didn't go for it.
--- End quote ---
Susan pointed out in the beginning that Harry had enough allies to potentially force the Red King to return his daughter for a big enough bribe, and Harry didn't contradict her--he just objected to that option because he didn't want to pay the Red King off. (At least, this is how I remember it going. I don't have my book with me, so I can't check.)
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