The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Michael lie?
Mira:
--- Quote ---You are agreeing with me. People believe things because they have reasons to, generally, even if others disagree with those reasons.
--- End quote ---
So what is your point then? Michael had very good reasons to tell Harry what he did...
--- Quote ---Pay attention. Not only have we moved past this, but I have never claimed that Michael lying to Harry deliberately was anything more than one possibility of many.
This claim is too simplistic because you are oversimplifying what I said.
--- End quote ---
Oh? How? The original question was did Michael lie to Harry? The answer is no, he didn't..
--- Quote ---There is a difference between being delusional/in denial and having faith. I seriously doubt that people's belief that the world is flat can ward off vampires.
--- End quote ---
No, there is no difference, one person's delusional/in denial is another person's profession of faith.. You may doubt that people's belief that the world is flat can ward off vampires, but try to tell that to someone who sincerely believes it... Whether it is really true or not is immaterial to them..
--- Quote ---There is a difference between saying that faith means believing things for reasons that others don't consider logical and rational and saying that faith means believing in things for no reason.
--- End quote ---
Why? People do that every day, whole movements have been based on indoctrination, Jones Town being a good example of that... The Hale Boop suicides are another, there was no logical reason for these people to believe they way they did, yet they did and they died for it.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---So what is your point then? Michael had very good reasons to tell Harry what he did...
Oh? How? The original question was did Michael lie to Harry? The answer is no, he didn't..
No, there is no difference, one person's delusional/in denial is another person's profession of faith.. You may doubt that people's belief that the world is flat can ward off vampires, but try to tell that to someone who sincerely believes it... Whether it is really true or not is immaterial to them..
Why? People do that every day, whole movements have been based on indoctrination, Jones Town being a good example of that... The Hale Boop suicides are another, there was no logical reason for these people to believe they way they did, yet they did and they died for it.
--- End quote ---
PLEASE READ THE FREAKING THREAD.
Edit: My apologies for shouting. What I meant to say is: Most if not all of this has been addressed on this thread already, and I feel like you either haven't read it or are ignoring it, which frustrates me. Furthermore, as I have also said earlier, I'm not comfortable delving too deeply into the faith thing because it gets too close to real world issues and I don't feel this is the place for that discussion.
morriswalters:
It's just as well that any talk of faith, in terms of the Dresden Files, be left on the floor. Michael has tangible proof of the the existence of the white god. In particular, his interaction with an Archangel. Not to mention glowing swords, an in with the Papal authorities and the occasional takeover for godly announcements. His knowledge of the nature of the Shadow could be revealed knowledge given to him off the text by some angelic source.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 11, 2019, 12:34:22 PM ---It's just as well that any talk of faith, in terms of the Dresden Files, be left on the floor. Michael has tangible proof of the the existence of the white god. In particular, his interaction with an Archangel. Not to mention glowing swords, an in with the Papal authorities and the occasional takeover for godly announcements. His knowledge of the nature of the Shadow could be revealed knowledge given to him off the text by some angelic source.
--- End quote ---
I am sorry but when discussing Michael and his motives, it does come down to his faith, that is what the character is about. That is how the author in my opinion has written him... The title of the thread is, Did Michael Lie? No... You can try to come up with a thousand logical reasons, but beyond his desire to help his friend based on his knowledge, experience, and faith in his Boss, the Almighty as Michael calls him, not the White God, only Mab refers to Him as that, this is what Michael came up with.. Sacrifice your magic and the shadow will fade, it worked for his wife, she was well on her way to becoming a warlock and that faded when she gave up her magic... Nothing scientific here, no logic, no concrete evidence which seems to be what is being reached for... What I am saying is you won't find any or at least none that would satisfy what you are looking for.... What is constantly repeated is there has to be a reason etc for this faith... No, there doesn't.. It has also been suggested that when Michael realized that Harry did indeed rid himself of the shadow he should have admitted that he was wrong, since he didn't,somehow he was dishonest with Harry.. I doubt that from Michael's point of view that he'd think he was wrong given his beliefs.. Just because Harry found another way doesn't make Michael wrong in his mind... So no, he wasn't being dishonest..
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on March 08, 2019, 11:48:15 PM ---Well, given that he's already suppressing a bunch of information, I don't see why he wouldn't add it to the list. Honestly, I just don't think that it would take much effort.
I figure that he probably tries to keep track of everything the Church thinks about Denarians, just on general principle.
--- End quote ---
I think we have different ideas of what "Nicodemus destroys the records every once in a while" entails.
I don't think he picks and chooses what he destroys with that kind of granularity. If anything, that would only give away his intentions -- if you go out of your way to, for example, specifically destroy someone's theorizing on get rid of the Shadow, but leave other things right next to it intact, the logical conclusion there is, "He's afraid someone can get rid of a Shadow," which will only encourage the Church to look into that specific thing even more.
But if you just torch the whole building, the survivors won't know what he wanted destroyed, whether there was anything specific in there or whether he was just in a mood that day and happened to be passing by your library.
That seems more Nicodemus's style, to me.
--- Quote ---My issue with the idea that Harry giving up his magic would get rid of the shadow has always been the lack of evidence for it--and if this is true in-universe as well, then Michael would be aware of it.
On the other hand, at this point I've found some evidence that Harry giving up his magic would reduce the shadow's influence if nothing else, so I'm happy with that.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version