The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Michael lie?
Talby16:
I also think that Michael did not intentionally lie to Harry. That would be completely out of character for him. I think Michael stated the truth that he knew based upon his information and experience. His information was obviously incomplete. Harry pointed this out to Michael in Small Favor in the workshop:
--- Quote ---I just stared at him for a minute. Then I said, "Hell's bells. And I thought wizards had a monopoly on arrogance."
He blinked.
"Or do you really expect me to believe that the Church has been there to document every single instance of anyone picking up any of the cursed coins. That they've followed through with everyone tempted by a Fallen's shadow, taken testimony. Made copies. Hell, gotten it notarized. Especially given that you've told me that Nicodemus has worked as hard as he could to destroy the Church's records and archives through the years."
Michael's weight settled back on his heels. He frowned..
--- End quote ---
Lash herself said that no Shadow had been with a person longer than she had been with Harry. Michael was in uncharted waters and trying to apply his experience to something that he knew nothing about. He spoke in error, but not maliciously.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Talby16 on February 19, 2019, 05:25:00 PM ---I also think that Michael did not intentionally lie to Harry. That would be completely out of character for him. I think Michael stated the truth that he knew based upon his information and experience. His information was obviously incomplete. Harry pointed this out to Michael in Small Favor in the workshop:
Lash herself said that no Shadow had been with a person longer than she had been with Harry. Michael was in uncharted waters and trying to apply his experience to something that he knew nothing about. He spoke in error, but not maliciously.
--- End quote ---
I totally agree, and since he never was inside Harry's head and privy to the conversations between Harry and Lash nor was he a witness to her sacrifice, he would have no way to judge except on what had happened in the past. This was unprecedented, that is what got Heaven's attention on Harry.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Him saying that there is no way to rid themselves of the Shadow is factoring in that Harry will not give up his magic. So he wasn't lying.
--- End quote ---
Quite possibly, although if this is the case then I wish he had been clearer.
--- Quote ---The shadow is tied to the magical power a wizard possesses.
--- End quote ---
Do we have any evidence of this whatsoever? Lasciel's shadow may have been providing Harry with hellfire, but unless there is evidence that the Fallen can only place shadows in magic users' heads, then I don't see how this works.
--- Quote ---Also facts that Michael knows, no one has ever rid themselves of the shadow of a Fallen.
--- End quote ---
Then why on Earth would he claim that Harry giving up his magic would be enough to rid him of the shadow? If Michael has evidence that no one has managed to rid themselves of a shadow (as flawed as that evidence turned out to be) then this claim is pretty insupportable.
--- Quote ---Point of fact, Michael does not say he has faith Harry will find another way to get rid of the Shadow.
--- End quote ---
Thanks! I retract any point I made based on Michael claiming that he had faith that Harry would rid himself of the shadow. That said, this still contradicts his emphatic claim in Small Favor that there is no way to be rid of the shadow.
--- Quote ---I also think that Michael did not intentionally lie to Harry. That would be completely out of character for him. I think Michael stated the truth that he knew based upon his information and experience. His information was obviously incomplete.
--- End quote ---
I agree that it is out of character for Michael to lie. However, the problem is not the incompleteness of his information--it's the contradiction in his own statements.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 16, 2019, 02:25:21 AM ---Also Harry never did rid himself of her. She sacrificed herself resulting in her departure. We know that people can get rid of the shadow as everyone who has given up the Coin has none. The shadow is tied to the magical power a wizard possesses. So that is what Michael was talking about.
--- End quote ---
The set aside your power and only by taking up and giving up the coin statements are still contradictory. No one has ever gotten a shadow and then gotten rid of it by setting aside magic (according to statement 3).
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 19, 2019, 08:24:34 PM ---Do we have any evidence of this whatsoever?
--- End quote ---
Michael's quote from Proven Guilty telling Harry to set aside his power. Their is also some evidence that the Shadow was using only Harry to survive in White Night, but that it wasn't "healthy."
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---The set aside your power and only by taking up and giving up the coin statements are still contradictory. No one has ever gotten a shadow and then gotten rid of it by setting aside magic (according to statement 3).
--- End quote ---
This.
--- Quote ---Michael's quote from Proven Guilty telling Harry to set aside his power.
--- End quote ---
I appear to have been unclear about what I meant here--sorry. I meant: do we have any evidence that Michael was right/do we know what evidence Michael had to base this claim on.
--- Quote ---Their is also some evidence that the Shadow was using only Harry to survive in White Night, but that it wasn't "healthy."
--- End quote ---
True, but Harry still had his magic then, so it doesn't speak to that. If anything, this is evidence for the fact that the shadow can draw some measure of strength from the Fallen in its coin, even when the host hasn't accepted the coin.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version