The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Black Council/The Circle/Nemesis

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Bad Alias:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on February 02, 2019, 09:41:49 AM ---I can't find any passage before that particular one that suggests this might be so.

--- End quote ---
That passage just doesn't seem like an "ah ha" moment to me, so I think the ideas Harry expresses in that passage first occurred to him off page. That's just how I read it. I'm not saying that's obviously, definitely the case and no one can disagree.

kbrizzle:
I always thought of the Circle as a UN of tier 2 baddies - the likes of Madeline Raith & Vito Malvora (the number 2/3/4 etc in every Court) as well as mercenaries like Binder. They are not Nfected but being used as tools by the Adversary.

The Circle in turn is controlled by the Black Council, which has tier 1 baddies like disaffected wizards (Cowl & Peabody), Mavra & Namshiel. These guys are senior management - they are somewhat ideologically committed, or have been Nfected - while they think they are running the plan, they are actually being manipulated by the Outsiders directly.

Bad Alias:
That's interesting and completely plausible. That's kind of my point that we don't really know who Harry has been fighting and how they are related. Nemesis is pretty vaguely defined as a corrupting outsider influence, and we have no idea what rules it plays by. The Circle is some group Malvora, Madrigal, and Cowl talk about. Technically, it could just be made up by Cowl and not even exist (I don't buy that, but it's possible). The Black Council is just the name Harry came up with for a conspiracy between wizards he suspected were behind a lot of events.

Pretty much everything else about these entities is a guess, so there's a lot of fun here to be had in the guessing and challenging of the guesses.

kbrizzle:
@Bad Alias
True, we don’t know much about either organization. However in what world would Madeline Raith, Vito Malvora or Binder be able to deal effectively with the likes of Cowl or Peabody or Mavra without being totally manipulated by them? Remember how the ‘fight’ between Lara Raith & Eb goes on Demonreach in TC - a powerful wizard could rip a powerful Whamp or Ramp apart without too much effort (not obviously at the LoON or White Court Elder Level, but then again the 3 I mentioned aren’t in these groups).

Bad Alias:
Out of the three you mentioned, Binder would be pretty good at not getting totally manipulated by them because of his "only money" stance on payment. The White Court is all about manipulation, so they should have had plenty of practice. (Madeline is probably an exception here because she seems to be the clumsiest Wamp we've seen).

Harry is a pretty powerful wizard and he has had a lot of trouble with each individual you have named and plenty of powerful Ramps. And why would any of them go up against another in a "fair" fight? An ambush is the way to go. Kill them before they get they notice there is any danger.

And even if they are easily manipulated, that doesn't really mean anything about the BC/C/N other than they aren't on the top level of any conspiracy or organizational chart.

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