The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Lea and the Adversary
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 05:33:11 PM ---It is not against the rules to take power if you can arrange it within the rules and that is exactly what she thought she was doing but it was a treacherous gift, she was betrayed.
It was completely within the rules, she even arranged for an equivalent gift to keep balance. She only got arrogant after she came under influence and she felt shame because of that.
--- End quote ---
Just what are the rules? Is there a quote or WOJ? Consider what Lea said in Proven Guilty when
Harry found her packed in ice.
--- Quote ---"I grew too arrogant with the power I held. I thought I could overcome what stalks us all. Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways."
--- End quote ---
Then on the next page.
--- Quote ---"I cannot yet be trusted. It is not time. I would not fulfill my promise to your mother, should you free me now. You must leave."
--- End quote ---
Perhaps she did grow arrogant with the power she held and that was how the Enemy was able to tempt her. She also thought she could over come the infection on her own... Knowing Mab as we
know her, unless there was mitigating circumstances like being infected, do you honestly think she'd even consider giving her a second chance? She speaks of trust, if the Winter Court was all about power struggles as you suggest, it wouldn't be an issue... Especially before she got the Knife, if there wasn't evidence that she was infected before, I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 12, 2019, 06:25:33 PM --- Just what are the rules? Is there a quote or WOJ?
--- End quote ---
Only what we can infer from the books but I think that is enough. Winter is about struggle for power. The dagger was just too big a temptation for most beings of winter. Trying to get stronger is what is expected from you in winter. It is all in what Lea teaches Harry as well.
--- Quote ---Consider what Lea said in Proven Guilty when
Harry found her packed in ice.
--- End quote ---
That was about after she became infected. Before that, before the dagger, she was just the normal Lea. It was the struggle to preserve that Lea that drove her to Mab, because she was failing.
--- Quote ---Then on the next page.
Perhaps she did grow arrogant with the power she held and that was how the Enemy was able to tempt her.
--- End quote ---
The dagger is power, only magical power of considerable size can probably contain an infection.
--- Quote ---She also thought she could over come the infection on her own... Knowing Mab as we
know her, unless there was mitigating circumstances like being infected, do you honestly think she'd even consider giving her a second chance?
--- End quote ---
Of course she was infected. What I read in your text is that she was infected before she accepted the dagger and that is contrary to what both Mab en Lea said and not a necessary condition for picking up the dagger in the first place because thirst for power is a perfectly acceptable motive for that.
--- Quote ---She speaks of trust, if the Winter Court was all about power struggles as you suggest, it wouldn't be an issue...
--- End quote ---
The trust is in things typical fairy like not being able to lie and keeping balance. It is about the rules she can not break and oaths given. The infected can break these things and so can not be trusted.
It is about how Harry can trust Lea and can not trust Lea.
--- Quote ---Especially before she got the Knife, if there wasn't evidence that she was infected before, I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.
--- End quote ---
She was quite clear in dead beat about the value of Lea as a vassal. The point was that she could be cured and that it was worthwhile, the exact moment of infection was not really important for that. The other thing was that she was her vassal and asked her liege for help. Mab might not even be able to refuse that help under these circumstances.
morriswalters:
Mab specifically points out Morgana's Athame as the source of the infection. Having the Athame wouldn't make a difference as long as the relative power remained the same.
--- Quote ---During our last encounter I returned to Faerie with great power and upset vital balances. Those balances had to be redressed, and your debt was the mechanism that the Queen chose to employ."
--- End quote ---
For some reason, Harry=Athame. This is reasonable if you assume Mab and Lea are aware of things we are not.
--- Quote from: Mira ---I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.
--- End quote ---
No. She also didn't kill Slade. Lea represents power. Much as Slade's Winter Mantle represented power. Who would replace her?
Mira:
--- Quote ---Mab specifically points out Morgana's Athame as the source of the infection. Having the Athame wouldn't make a difference as long as the relative power remained the same.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but in reference to her daughter, not necessarily Lea.. Having the Athame would make a difference since it is very much a symbol of power, it could also have given Lea and advantage over Mab.. These things do not happen in a void, Doing the reread, Lea was indeed off just a bit pre-party in Grave Peril.
--- Quote ---No. She also didn't kill Slade. Lea represents power. Much as Slade's Winter Mantle represented power. Who would replace her?
--- End quote ---
Apples to oranges... Slade wasn't infected as far as we know, if it is true that humans cannot be infected, he wasn't.. He just worked with Aurora to betray Mab.. So Mab made him suffer, she also kept him around until she could get Harry. I think many of us are in agreement that Aurora was infected.. She had no contact with the Knife, since that was pre Knife.. If she was, then it is possible that Lea also was. Remember Aurora's madness wasn't all that apparent at first either until she was so far gone that she had to die, just as Maeve had to die. Lea is important to Mab and was judged not to be so far gone as she could be cured.. But if she couldn't be cured or if her attempt at a power grab was sans infection? Yeah, Mab would have had her be dead and worried about a replacement later.
--- Quote ---She was quite clear in dead beat about the value of Lea as a vassal. The point was that she could be cured and that it was worthwhile, the exact moment of infection was not really important for that. The other thing was that she was her vassal and asked her liege for help. Mab might not even be able to refuse that help under these circumstances.
--- End quote ---
So? Maeve was her daughter, and her Winter Lady yet Mab ordered her death...
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 12, 2019, 08:26:44 PM ---So? Maeve was her daughter, and her Winter Lady yet Mab ordered her death...
--- End quote ---
Mab wanted to safe Maeve but she needed Maeves help for it to succeed. Lea fought for her sanity and asked Mab for help, She fought her infection. Maeve embraced it and so even Mab could not help her.
Mab would have helped Maeve if she wanted to be helped. Now she could only have her killed.
--- Quote ---“It isn’t too late,” Sarissa said. “You know how she lays her plans. She prepares for everything. But it doesn’t have to happen that way. The Leanansidhe was sick and Mother helped her. But her power alone isn’t enough to heal you. You have to want it, Maeve. You have to want to be healed.”
--- End quote ---
But she did not want it. She had no shame like Lea had:
--- Quote ---Then she lifted her head and stared venomously at Sarissa. “I am strong, Sarissa. Stronger than I have ever been. Here, now, stronger than she is.” Her lips quivered and twitched back from her teeth into a hideous mockery of a smile. “Why should I want to be healed of that?”
--- End quote ---
She did not fight it so Mab could not help her.
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