The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Ghost Story and Susan's Fate
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Z054J on November 30, 2018, 12:37:31 AM ---Dresden may persecute himself for "murdering Susan Rodriquez" - but he didn't actually do that. If he had, the Bloodline Curse wouldn't have wiped out the Red Court. "Susan" was gone already when he killed the vampire she'd become.
--- End quote ---
If "Susan was already gone" were true, would a vampire really have laid down on the alter to willingly die as a weapon against all the other vampires? That was pretty clearly still Susan making the choice.
I doubt Uriel could or would have told Harry what happened to her afterward, though. Not being allowed to know for sure seems like another one of the Rules.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on December 01, 2018, 03:49:52 PM ---If "Susan was already gone" were true, would a vampire really have laid down on the alter to willingly die as a weapon against all the other vampires? That was pretty clearly still Susan making the choice.
I doubt Uriel could or would have told Harry what happened to her afterward, though. Not being allowed to know for sure seems like another one of the Rules.
--- End quote ---
She did make a choice. Remember? So did Harry. He knew full well or figured that when he
revealed Martin's treachery, she'd go postal and kill him.. It was still her choice to go postal knowing the consequences if she did kill. When she laid herself down the change wasn't quite
complete, but was when Harry cut her throat.. If it hadn't been the reversal of the generation
spell wouldn't have worked. So she wasn't human when she died, now an exception might have
been made for her. It could be that she works for Uriel or something like that, but he wouldn't tell
Harry because there are other plans for him, plans that are beyond even Uriel's pay grade.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 06, 2018, 12:16:06 PM ---She did make a choice. Remember? So did Harry. He knew full well or figured that when he
revealed Martin's treachery, she'd go postal and kill him.. It was still her choice to go postal knowing the consequences if she did kill. When she laid herself down the change wasn't quite
complete, but was when Harry cut her throat.. If it hadn't been the reversal of the generation
spell wouldn't have worked. So she wasn't human when she died, now an exception might have
been made for her. It could be that she works for Uriel or something like that, but he wouldn't tell
Harry because there are other plans for him, plans that are beyond even Uriel's pay grade.
--- End quote ---
That is supposing the vampire looses the soul immediately after transformation but that does not have to be the case. It might take some time to loose it completely. (5 minutes would be enough :-) )
morriswalters:
If you believe in this type of thing then you might want to think that the totality of Susan's life will be what she is judged on, not the last moments. And JB uses this over and over. Where this not true then Thomas would be royally f**ked. And it isn't Harrry's business. He may well feel guilt over his own choices but can't assume agency for her. She was her own person.
--- Quote from: pyromapes ---He never asked what happened to Susan.
--- End quote ---
He may be of the mind that it is a little late for that particular question. Your assumption is that it turned out well. Would Harry really want to know if it hadn't. His choice sealed Susan's fate. For good or bad. She will never have the opportunity to add or remove to the totality of her life. All this assuming that the white god doesn't have a summer school with makeup dates for souls on the cusp.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 06, 2018, 12:38:26 PM ---That is supposing the vampire looses the soul immediately after transformation but that does not have to be the case. It might take some time to loose it completely. (5 minutes would be enough :-) )
--- End quote ---
The RPG is kind of instructive here. It has mechanics for a character going over the edge from playable PC (i.e., with enough Refresh to have free will) to unplayable (taking so many powers that you are over the refresh limit, such as in the case of turning to a Red Court vampire, or a Changeling Choosing his or her fae side).
Basically, the player can cash in their chips and take on all the applicable powers, and remain playable for the duration of whatever immediate task caused them to take on those powers. Afterward, they're rendered NPCs.
So at least as far as game mechanics are concerned — and they're backed up by things like Susan and Meryl's final scenes — someone who fully turns retains some control over themselves in the first few minutes post-transformation.
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