Author Topic: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty  (Read 2834 times)

Offline kbrizzle

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Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« on: November 17, 2018, 04:18:05 AM »
Here are some interesting observations in the book that I haven't seen a lot of discussion on:

  • Madrigal Raith points out that he was invited to SplatterCon!!! a year ago. This means that whoever planned the phobophage attacks not only knew Madrigal's "new tastes" (to make him a scapegoat) but also planned it a year in advance.
  • Speaking of things happening a year before the events of PG, at the beginning of the book, the White Council is flummoxed by both Summer & Winter's inaction in the face of Ramp trespassing. Lily & Fix tell Harry that this is because Mab has had her troops amassed at the border with Summer "since last year"
  • In a weird way, this book is the story of a 2 mother/ daughter pairings where things aren't going well - Charity/ Molly & Mab/ Maeve.
  • Harry points out that the Scarecrow attacks & kills Glau first when it ambushes ebay auction at Fool Moon garage. In this book, we learn that Glau is a half-djinn, an Arab creature, & Harry notices that he carries an Arab looking sword. Thomas further says that Glau has been a trusted family vassal of House Raith for some time. We also know in White Night that Madeline Raith was calling numbers in Egypt.
  • When Harry runs into Lea at the prison/ garden, we can tell when the Nfection is speaking because Harry observes that Lea's eyes glitter in a crazy way. What is interesting is that it is Nfected Lea who explains the true nature of Slate's punishment to Harry, showing that Nemesis has a sophisticated understanding of both Mab & the human psyche. When Lea's eyes are normal, she tells Harry to leave her in ice shackles, however her eyes glitter when she asks him to release her
  • At the meeting of the White Council at the end of the book, Lily rather blatantly places the blame of the entire assault on Arctis Tor on Harry. She frames this to the Council as saying that Harry heroically led a raid on Arctis Tor, causing Winter troops to retreat home & giving Summer some space to maneuver. This is no doubt on Maeve's urging to cover up the true reason for the attack & confuse anyone who asks about it later

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2018, 09:42:51 PM »
Madrigal Raith points out that he was invited to SplatterCon!!! a year ago. This means that whoever planned the phobophage attacks not only knew Madrigal's "new tastes" (to make him a scapegoat) but also planned it a year in advance.

While I agree with your interpretation, whoever planned the attacks could have learned of his attendance and taken advantage of it at any point. It could also just be a coincidence, but random coincidences are vary rare in fiction.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2018, 11:01:37 PM »
Good analysis. Especially the Glau and Arab connection. Glau might have been the means that Maddie was connected or infected. Since Laura ate Maddie, perhaps she is infected. Which would explain her recent power grabs.
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Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 05:13:33 AM »
@Wardenferry
I agree - Madeline was clearly working with the Black Council against both Harry & the WCV in WN. Glau seems to be a good connection between the Black council & whatever they have planned in the Arab world.

However I don’t think Lara is Nfected - her actions against the Outsiders in both Changes & Cold Days are against the plans of the Black Council (saving Molly & attacking the other Outsider base on Lake Michigan)

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 08:57:24 PM »
Possibly. There does seem to be something weird going on with her. Thomas noted her doing alot of power play.
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Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 09:11:09 PM »
I think WOJ is everyone who knows the 4-1-1 is grabbing power and preparing. I think that Lara has finally had a peek behind the curtain and is acting accordingly.

Excellent analysis kbrizzle. Especially the 2 stories in one. That is very Jim and mark of a skilled writer.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 01:21:38 AM »
Thanks!

Another salient point is my last one regarding Lily telling the White Council that Harry was behind the attack on Arctis Tor.

I believe this was done to convince Mab & the rest of the Council that Harry was on the Black council. Harry has been using hellfire courtesy of a Denarian (which was clearly used in the assault), he brought iron weapons/ armor to Faerie & he used Summerfire in the heart of Winter - all of these are huge insults to Mab. I believe this was another of Black council’s ploys - to get Mab & the White Council to distrust Harry even more than they already do.

This play fails - Mab trusts Harry enough in Small Favor & that he sides with the Merlin in Turn Coat should convince the Merlin that Harry is not with the Circle. Additionally Harry sort of joins the Grey Council being set up by Eb.

Offline crazyut90

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 06:46:23 PM »
I am re-reading all the books and just finished Turn Coat, and at this time I am wondering if the reason that Mab was so furious that she needed an interpreter was due to the fact that Maeve was the one leading the attack on Arctis Tor, and that she was the one that sent the winter forces to the boarder so she could attack?  That would show Mab that Maeve was N'fected.

I believe that Mab sent the fetches to bring Harry to Arctis Tor so he would know what was going on.  Remember she plays the long game, not the quick one.

it seems to work better with the flow of the books if this was going on behind the scenes in the books.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:48:21 PM by crazyut90 »

Offline Kindler

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 09:26:13 PM »
Here are some interesting observations in the book that I haven't seen a lot of discussion on:

  • Madrigal Raith points out that he was invited to SplatterCon!!! a year ago. This means that whoever planned the phobophage attacks not only knew Madrigal's "new tastes" (to make him a scapegoat) but also planned it a year in advance.

Which, to the best of my recollection, coincided with Molly getting caught holding the bag (o' drugs) at the party, which drove her from the house.
Quote
  • Speaking of things happening a year before the events of PG, at the beginning of the book, the White Council is flummoxed by both Summer & Winter's inaction in the face of Ramp trespassing. Lily & Fix tell Harry that this is because Mab has had her troops amassed at the border with Summer "since last year"
See above.
Quote
  • In a weird way, this book is the story of a 2 mother/ daughter pairings where things aren't going well - Charity/ Molly & Mab/ Maeve.
Yeah. One ends up well, the other... not so much. Charity smothers her daughter with tough love, but there's just no saving Maeve after she's infected.
Quote
  • Harry points out that the Scarecrow attacks & kills Glau first when it ambushes ebay auction at Fool Moon garage. In this book, we learn that Glau is a half-djinn, an Arab creature, & Harry notices that he carries an Arab looking sword. Thomas further says that Glau has been a trusted family vassal of House Raith for some time. We also know in White Night that Madeline Raith was calling numbers in Egypt.
Tiny nit: we find out about the Egypt call in Turn Coat, significantly later. Eldest Fetch killing Glau reeks of a coverup. As mentioned in another thread, Jim has laid lots of groundwork for something to happen in Egypt. Maybe even add Sanya descending from Saladin (Sultan of Egypt and Syria, and, according to Word of Jim, a Knight) to that list.
Quote
  • When Harry runs into Lea at the prison/ garden, we can tell when the Nfection is speaking because Harry observes that Lea's eyes glitter in a crazy way. What is interesting is that it is Nfected Lea who explains the true nature of Slate's punishment to Harry, showing that Nemesis has a sophisticated understanding of both Mab & the human psyche. When Lea's eyes are normal, she tells Harry to leave her in ice shackles, however her eyes glitter when she asks him to release her
Not only does it demonstrate its understanding of human psyche, it provides Harry with a blatantly terrifying image of what can happen to the Winter Knight. Harry remembers the sight of Slate every time Mab offers him the job, and cites that as his main reason for not taking it. Nemesis may have prevented Harry from accepting the WK Mantle for years with a few sentences.

Quote
  • At the meeting of the White Council at the end of the book, Lily rather blatantly places the blame of the entire assault on Arctis Tor on Harry. She frames this to the Council as saying that Harry heroically led a raid on Arctis Tor, causing Winter troops to retreat home & giving Summer some space to maneuver. This is no doubt on Maeve's urging to cover up the true reason for the attack & confuse anyone who asks about it later
I agree, at least about the greater magical community. Maeve didn't want any significant powers asking Mab about what happened. I do think that this is what tipped her hand to Mab, who later confirmed it via unknown means.

Still, good questions all 'round. Personally, I believe that the whole Proven Guilty Fetch Plot was about two forces trying to alternately save and kill Molly before she can become the Winter Lady. I think the Gatekeeper got a bit more out of his Future-Gazing than "Oh there's a wee bit of black magic around town." I think he sensed that Molly was in danger, and was important to the Outsider threat. I mean, Bob kinda spells it out with his car-theft analogy. By telling someone to move their car, it gets stolen instead of you getting hijacked and killed in the process. By telling Harry to look into black magic, he got Dresden involved and prevented Molly from being eaten by Fetches.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Random things I noticed in Proven Guilty
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 07:50:50 PM »
@crazyut90

I don’t think Maeve would’ve been so brazen as to attack Arctis stir directly herself. I think something else gave her away. Agreed about the Fetches though - not only did they save Molly from the clutches of the Black Council, they also brought a Harry to see what had happened in Arctis Tor personally.

@Kindler

Agreed about Molly - that is actually part of my WAG in another thread - my comprehensive WAG about the events of PG. Great point in noting that Molly’s troubles with her family started a year ago as well - this shows that the events of PG were planned a year in advance.