The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Any news on Peace Talks
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: g33k on December 13, 2019, 07:35:43 AM ---I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that WoJ!
I'm also pretty sure Mr. Butcher is kinda infamous for playing geeky wordgames with his fans.
If "The White God" actually had enough power to retcon Creation, and that's how he BECAME the creator... it's kind of like a cyclic pre/post BigBang universe, in a mystic sense.
Maybe THAT is the secret of the Outsiders -- they were in charge of everything, and TWG retcon'ed them out of existence. 8)
--- End quote ---
Except the WOJ I mentioned says basically the opposite - The Creator is ALWAYS the Creator, it is MORTAL understanding that changes.
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 13, 2019, 06:08:17 PM ---I also remember something about the current holder of that mantle not being the first one.
--- End quote ---
See above. I think you are confusing that with a WOJ that said Uriel might merely be a being that THINKS he is an Archangel etc, and not necessarily be JUST that. All to do with mortal belief, I grant you.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on December 14, 2019, 05:39:44 AM ---Except the WOJ I mentioned says basically the opposite - The Creator is ALWAYS the Creator, it is MORTAL understanding that changes.
--- End quote ---
Which changes how he expresses himself in the mortal realm. That is what he is for us. It is a very powerful being but in certain ways humanity is more powerfull.
--- Quote ---See above. I think you are confusing that with a WOJ that said Uriel might merely be a being that THINKS he is an Archangel etc, and not necessarily be JUST that. All to do with mortal belief, I grant you.
--- End quote ---
I specifically remember the white god. At the time I linked it to the radical changes in his character in history though that does not have to be the case. Human understanding changed.
Uriel's grace behaves like a mantle. If Michael had kept the mantle he would have become Uriel. It was not said with so many words but that is how it looked like.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 14, 2019, 06:55:29 AM ---Which changes how he expresses himself in the mortal realm. That is what he is for us. It is a very powerful being but in certain ways humanity is more powerfull. I specifically remember the white god. At the time I linked it to the radical changes in his character in history though that does not have to be the case. Human understanding changed.
Uriel's grace behaves like a mantle. If Michael had kept the mantle he would have become Uriel. It was not said with so many words but that is how it looked like.
--- End quote ---
Well that's been said of mantle bearers, it might not be true of the Almighty. We really haven't got much to go by, other than the power He gives His agents. And perhaps the power of His enemies - as excellent an indication as any.
But remember mortal understanding once placed Earth at the centre of the universe and the solar system etc. It also once posited that the Earth was flat - some fools still believe that today! I think humanity's power IS significant - but even in the Dresden Files humanity haven't lived longer than the universe. Which seems to me that the universe then has some fundamentals that no amount of understanding will affect. I don't think the Almighty's impact is limited the same way other supernatural's are. He holds the keys to the kingdom, He presumably can bypass the normal restrictions.
In any case, if you could pull up that WOJ or direct me to it as I am having a hard time tracking it down I would appreciate it. :)
Also, with regards to Uriel...I find it highly significant that his Grace acts rather like a Mantle. For two main reasons.
1) Grace is basically what makes an Angel an Angel. This is what Uriel said. BUT - not quite everything. He still had his identity, and seemingly his intellectus. Bob also has said that Angels are able to do what they do mostly via Soulfire. When Harry expresses surprise at this, wondering if Angels even have souls, Bob explains that they don't have much else. Now Bob doesn't know everything and his view gets narrowed because of what he is. But if I had to guess, a soul is merely a word that covers a range of spiritual qualities and pieces. Many cultures such as the Egyptians believed that the soul had multiple parts. Angels and humans share certain parts of the soul, but not all. Angels get more power, but humans get some part that gives them total Free Will. Which is more useful is probably more based on perspective and context. I think Griffin or Serack covered the whole soul thing in a WAG a few years back.
2) If Uriel IS wearing a mantle, then what other mantles might he also be wearing? My personal WAG (and it is wild) is that each Archangel, and perhaps each Angel and even each Soul, might make up TWG in some variation. If you think of TWG as a superbeing (I would say superorganism but it really doesn't quite work), then His "body" is the universes, His "arms" and "legs" are the Angels, and the souls of us are part of His mind. The other part of course is the Archangels. That is how He is able to interact, He is literally doing it through lesser parts of Himself. And we know that He does this - He has sent himself as a Mortal into the world before, perhaps even several times. So we know He is capable of being partially in one form, but the greater part of his infinite power is retained elsewhere. My analogy might be rough, but I think the idea is clear. I have no basis for it in canon or otherwise...but I do wonder. It would go a long way to explaining how He is able to be omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. It also might indicate that part of himself rebelled though...which is also rather disturbing. But then again our bodies and minds rebel against ourselves all the time. Perhaps that's just a part of the natural order of things.
And my WAG best answers the Problem of Evil.
Arjan:
If you look at it historically as in what people really believed at the time the hebrew god started as the head of a pantheon of gods with a wife and so on. The story changed and the other gods in the pantheon changed and some became angels just like some other gods later became saints. I think we can assume that Uriel's grace evolved from something that was originally even more like a mantle.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on December 14, 2019, 10:25:34 PM ---It also once posited that the Earth was flat - some fools still believe that today!...
In any case, if you could pull up that WOJ or direct me to it as I am having a hard time tracking it down I would appreciate it. :)...
He still had his identity, and seemingly his intellectus.
--- End quote ---
It's not the fools who believe such things that worry me.
Sorry. I just have some vague recollection of it, but I do mostly just watch videos posted on Youtube (as opposed to Reddit AMA's and magazine interviews whose transcripts I don't trust to be precise enough to be useful anyway). The main thing is that I recall Jim asking the question "how would you know." A question for in response to an answer is only the implication of an answer. Basically, even if I remember perfectly correctly, Jim did not say that the Creator wasn't the original creator.
Uriel didn't have his intellectus. If you recall, he had to ask where the towels (or sheets or some such thing) were.
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