Author Topic: The maeve story line  (Read 3451 times)

Offline morriswalters

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The maeve story line
« on: November 14, 2018, 01:33:23 AM »
This is an attempt on my part to isolate out the events in what I call the Maeve story line which leads to Molly becoming the Winter Lady.  I wonder if anybody would be interested in pointing out flaws or omissions?  It is incomplete as posted as I haven't completed the Cold Days story line.  If there is any interest I will update it as I add any additions or corrections.  It also contains some comments and possible interpretations of events.  I'll do it under a spoiler because of its length.
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 02:51:48 AM by morriswalters »

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 02:26:28 AM »
This is an attempt on my part to isolate out the events in what I call the Maeve story line which leads to Molly becoming the Winter Lady.  I wonder if anybody would be interested in pointing out flaws or omissions?  It is incomplete as posted as I haven't completed the Cold Days story line.  If there is any interest I will update it as I add any additions or corrections.  It also contains some comments and possible interpretations of events.  I'll do it under a spoiler because of its length.
(click to show/hide)

I don't know that Lea's warning not to let Mab bring him to the table was about trying to dissuade Harry from becoming the Knight. It's possible - if Nemesis already had a solid grip on her by SK, it wouldn't want Winter to gain a starborn Knight.

But it's also possible Lea was concerned Mab might want to sacrifice Harry on the table to add his power - possibly even including the starborn aspect of it - to Winter.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2018, 03:21:58 AM »
I don't know if you missed it or left it out intentionally, but Maeve picked Slate as Winter Kinght, Maeve wasn't doing her job even before she became infected, and Maeve tried to have Jenny Greenteeth kill Billy and Georgia in Something Borrowed.

Also, it's if/then, not if/than.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 11:14:38 AM »
Corrected.

Offline Cozarkian

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 03:23:45 AM »
I don't know that Lea's warning not to let Mab bring him to the table was about trying to dissuade Harry from becoming the Knight. It's possible - if Nemesis already had a solid grip on her by SK, it wouldn't want Winter to gain a starborn Knight.

But it's also possible Lea was concerned Mab might want to sacrifice Harry on the table to add his power - possibly even including the starborn aspect of it - to Winter.

Probably both. I'd wager there are only two reasons Mab would bring some to the Stone Table, either to share the power of Winter (e.g. make him a Knight) or add to the power of Winter (e.g. kill him). Lea was likely warning against both. Even if she was already under the influence of Nemesis Lea would still want to look out for Harry. Nemesis appears capable of Magog-style possession (e.g. Cat Sith) but I think it prefers the Anduriel/Lasciel style of corruption.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 01:32:38 AM »
I'm working according to the Adversary principle.  If you're infected everything you say is a lie, one way or the other, unless proven otherwise.

Offline dspringer1

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 05:05:25 PM »
Infection seems to have a different effect on each person.   The only constant effect is that the person is more likely to take actions that benefit the outsiders.

As best as I can tell, the infection magnifies some personality traits of the victim, to the point where they victim acts increasingly irrationally and OCD toward that objective
*  Victor Sells became focused on gaining power
*  Aurora became obsessed about stopping the suffering caused by winter
*  Maeve's normal rebellion against Mab/her role became magnified and she was able to break Winter Law by lying
*  The FBI agents became so focused about stopping criminals that they became monsters to do so
*  I would argue that Lara is infected as she is becoming obsessed with gaining control over her environment beyond what makes any reasonable sense.

I would also argue that the victims are not completely controlled by the outsiders.  They are influenced, but not controlled.  After all, Lea was discovered when she begged the Queen to save Harry -- not a tactic that the outsiders would have wanted AT ALL. 

Offline morriswalters

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 05:59:12 PM »
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After all, Lea was discovered when she begged the Queen to save Harry
Can you cite that?  I can't find it.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2018, 09:30:08 PM »
Here's the quote from Dead Beat:
Quote
"For what reason have you detained her?"
"Because I do not tolerate challenges to my authority," [narration] "Certain events had convinced your godmother that she was no longer bound by my word and will. She is now learning otherwise."

From that, and what we learn about Winter Law in Cold Days, it sounds like Lea was found out when she broke Winter Law.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2018, 12:27:00 AM »
Yes, the question was is this explicitly stated somewhere? 
Quote
After all, Lea was discovered when she begged the Queen to save Harry -- not a tactic that the outsiders would have wanted AT ALL.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 04:24:21 AM »
Yes, the question was is this explicitly stated somewhere?

Not in Dead Beat, where we learn (in retrospect), that Mab has discovered that something is wrong with Lea. She broke Winter Law, which shouldn't be possible for a Winter faerie to do.

I'm reading Proven Guilty now. If I find anything that supports or contravenes that statement, I'll let you know.

Offline dspringer1

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 11:04:23 PM »
There was a line in one of the later books where Lea was explaining something to Harry.  It might have been ghost story, but cannot remember for sure.  She mentioned that she begged Mab to save Harry during the events in Dead Beat. 

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: The maeve story line
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2018, 08:33:43 PM »
It's not mentioned in Proven Guilty, at least not in the part with Lea. I'll let y'all know if I find it down the road.