The Dresden Files > DF Books
White Court: emotions
morriswalters:
I've spoilered this because I'm really talking to myself. (click to show/hide)
--- Quote ---In summation, those pesky vampires aren’t, by necessity, bad guys or whatever you said, for eating. In fact, it might be unethical to not allow them to eat at all. I think the standard of judgement would be in the details of the treatment of their food sources, thus full circle to my initial comment paralleling the human relationship with other animals.
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This truly begs the question of Harry's ethical position vis a vis the Reds, upon who he committed genocide. As a sentient being being eaten isn't really on my agenda, and anything that tries, will pay if I can arrange it. In a real sense evil is meaningless in that context.
Harry's world has a very Christian ethic, evidenced by this passage from the fight at the pyramid at Chichen Itza
--- Quote ---“False gods!” she cried, her blue eyes blazing as she stared at the Red King and the Lords of Outer Night. “Pretenders! Usurpers of truth! Destroyers of faith, of families, of lives, of children! For your crimes against the Mayans, against the peoples of the world, now will you answer! Your time has come! Face judgment Almighty!”
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Obviously God has a point of view, the Red's were evil, and they had to pay when the check was presented.
In that context the Whites and the Reds are evil because they express choice, they know their prey is sentient. Oh yeah, and the private property of a wrathful God. The difference between Thomas and Lara is that Thomas cares and struggles against what he is. It's a narrow hair and JB splits it.
Good luck on your search for cat food, I had three lovely cats and they drove me crazy in a very fun way. I miss them.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Ananda on October 22, 2018, 10:28:11 PM ---If you change that to predictability or pattern, then I’ll agree completely. An obvious example is taken from the headlines; fear allows for control. Get people scared and a certain percentage will go along with anything. Bypassing reason by stirring emotions is a predictable and easily accessible form of control currently being used to great effect. Various studies have shown this and it’s predictability has been weaponised.
I’d say that logic steps can be created to exploit these things, but the fear et al aren’t, in themselves, logical, just predictable.
In summation, those pesky vampires aren’t, by necessity, bad guys or whatever you said, for eating. In fact, it might be unethical to not allow them to eat at all. I think the standard of judgement would be in the details of the treatment of their food sources, thus full circle to my initial comment paralleling the human relationship with other animals.
Now, we ought to co-author a paper for a philosophy journal exploring the ethics of refusing vampires food.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEPkIeEaxT8
Really I do not expect the cows to offer themselves for food. I am totally OK with cows refusing it. :)
--- Quote ---We order our cat’s food online as the prices are much lower than buying off the shelf and, if you spend 500kr on the site we use, the shipping is free.
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Ananda:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 23, 2018, 03:17:06 AM ---I've spoilered this because I'm really talking to myself.This truly begs the question of Harry's ethical position vis a vis the Reds, upon who he committed genocide. As a sentient being being eaten isn't really on my agenda, and anything that tries, will pay if I can arrange it. In a real sense evil is meaningless in that context.
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I've been saying that there is no such thing as evil, good, bad, or otherwise *objectively* for a bit now and even said I don't think free will as we typically think of it even exists. :D Of course, the subjective experience is something different, though only "real" in the same way that the sociological phenomenon of "definition of situation" is real (where you, for example, see someone wearing a lab coat and decide they have medical authority and so grant them that authority even if they don't have any medical training). It's not the true situation, but, for one acting under that thought process, it becomes the true situation.
Further, I'd say that sentience is not a hard line binary; either you're exactly like us or you're not sentient. I'd express it's more of a slope and we're only at the top of it because we've created the measurements. However, even by our own measurements, all other mammals, birds, even fish share the same biological structures. We all evolved from the same sources, after all and, the closer another animal is to us, the closer they are to us on our self-determined scale. Of course, it's easier to see everything as binary as that removes all pesky complications like thinking about how we, as a species, interact with other species.
It's a good question about the genocide. You should start a discussion about the ethicalness (is that a word?) of said action.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 23, 2018, 03:17:06 AM ---Harry's world has a very Christian ethic, evidenced by this passage from the fight at the pyramid at Chichen ItzaObviously God has a point of view, the Red's were evil, and they had to pay when the check was presented.
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But, all characters in the books have a point of view. Each one is just expressing their nature or desires through thought and action (or inaction). To say that, because one of the faeries or magic beings proclaimed something makes it the dominant viewpoint might be going a bit far. Mab takes plenty of action, judges and so in the books. It doesn't follow that the world they live in therefore has a Mab ethic. Neither does it follow that it has a christian ethic because of the pronouncements of those characters. It only demonstrates their particular point of view.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 23, 2018, 03:17:06 AM ---The difference between Thomas and Lara is that Thomas cares and struggles against what he is. It's a narrow hair and JB splits it.
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I'd say there is no difference in the end. And, why would one struggle against being who they are? That's a common theme in literature to be certain, but, in practice, it's just self-torture. And, if a society imposes that struggle, then one might even say that it's cruelty.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 23, 2018, 03:17:06 AM ---I had three lovely cats and they drove me crazy in a very fun way. I miss them.
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Aww. We lost two cats within a month of each other a few years ago. It was really terrible. You ever think about getting a new kitty?
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---It's a good question about the genocide. You should start a discussion about the ethicalness (is that a word?) of said action.
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I think not. There is no real ethical question. It a riff off the idea of the environmental costs of killing off apex predators. They died for the turtlenecks. And frankly I liked the vamps better.
--- Quote ---But, all characters in the books have a point of view. Each one is just expressing their nature or desires through thought and action (or inaction). To say that, because one of the faeries or magic beings proclaimed something makes it the dominant viewpoint might be going a bit far.
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In the Dresdenverse they seem to have a pretty dominant position but ?shrug/?
--- Quote ---I'd say there is no difference in the end. And, why would one struggle against being who they are? That's a common theme in literature to be certain, but, in practice, it's just self-torture. And, if a society imposes that struggle, then one might even say that it's cruelty.
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You pretty much shut off cruelty didn't you? It falls on the same line as evil.
Ananda:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 23, 2018, 03:17:04 PM ---You pretty much shut off cruelty didn't you?
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I don't understand what you're asking here. Could you rephrase it or elaborate, please?
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