The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?
Quantus:
I will point out (mostly muddling the waters I think) that per WOJ the intent behind the spell does affect things, specifically along the line between Targeted magic and (in that WOJ example) Wards which were strong enough to kill FBI agents but arent illegal. Large-scale manufacturing of a recreational drug would not carry the sort of directed animosity that is apparently important when talking about mental invasion.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 18, 2018, 11:43:58 AM ---However he couldn't do it at all without the ink.. The ink did a lot, it made whoever got some on them vulnerable to Peabody's mind magic. That is why he tried so hard to get Harry to sign something, which he refused and was the only one not affected. Harry says the fact that he didn't hang around headquarters much was a stroke of luck otherwise he too would have eventually have come in contact with the ink and fallen under the spell.
Whether or not you want to call it a potion or not, the ink had elements of one... Testimony during the trial.... Turn Coat page 386 the Merlin is talking here
So the ink was more than a device like the wooden tube Harry uses as a blasting rod..
Really? Interesting that if the belts were so legal that they were all burned...
--- End quote ---
Legal does not mean morally right. You sometimes hear the argument that something is OK because it is legal, that can point to a lack of morality in the person using that argument.
Harry correctly thought the belts too repulsive and dangerous not to destroy.
--- Quote ---What does whether or not you sell a love potion as a drug have to do with violating the 3rd Law?
--- End quote ---
I do not know but I got the impression that it was argued otherwise.
--- Quote ---Spirit of lust? No, but it does increase carnal lust pushing the drinker to want sex when they might not want sex, a violation of free will.
--- End quote ---
I don't know. What is enough of a violation of free will to matter seems to differ sometimes. Uriel would say that Susan still had free will. Just somewhat lowered inhibitions.
--- Quote ---I say Harry wasn't a jerk because he didn't violate Susan's free will to decide whether or not she wanted sex with him under the influence of the potion... That has nothing to do with morals, it is whether he wanted to be a rapist or not..
--- End quote ---
Wanting to be a rapist or not definitively has something to do with morals but nothing to do with the laws of magic. Morals have everything to do with emotions and a lack of these emotions like guilt and shame can be seen as a mental defect.
But again nothing to do with the laws of magic. Harry would have burned those belts whether they were allowed or not. Harry has a lot of moral emotions.
Quantus:
Fwiw, the TWG side doesnt seem to view being "Pushed" alone as a violation of Free Will (this is the Thrall distinction, methinks), given that a half-vamp that succumbs to their vampiric Blood-lust was still Choosing of their own Free Will
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 18, 2018, 01:20:37 PM ---Fwiw, the TWG side doesnt seem to view being "Pushed" alone as a violation of Free Will (this is the Thrall distinction, methinks), given that a half-vamp that succumbs to their vampiric Blood-lust was still Choosing of their own Free Will
--- End quote ---
That is what Uriel's 7 words in Ghost Story seems to make somewhat hollow. Sure, only Harry can change who he is but Mab knows from experience that if you push hard enough it will happen.
The potion does not take away your free will, it just lowers your inhibitions. You might not want your inhibitions lowered but a lot of things happen you do not want.
Wizard Sibelis:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 18, 2018, 01:20:37 PM ---Fwiw, the TWG side doesnt seem to view being "Pushed" alone as a violation of Free Will (this is the Thrall distinction, methinks), given that a half-vamp that succumbs to their vampiric Blood-lust was still Choosing of their own Free Will
--- End quote ---
Gah, this whole thread seems to be forgetting one huge key, fae give out laced food all the time and they can't abrogate free will. Taking the food, even unknowingly, isn't violating free will. offering it, using it to your advantage, ect. If you look at the wording of the laws nothing about the potion is a mentally invasive presence, it doesn't bind or effect your mind directly, your not suddenly smitten with someone you dislike, feeling horny your not trying to jump a toad demon or similarly offensive being, Susan wanted Harry, the potion just made the idea louder, which we know is far from violations apparently. It's not like Merope inspelling Tom Riddle, it doesn't actually change your thought patterns at all...
*the ink was a mental catalyst btw, and probably a thaumaturgic connection to the vic, not a potion per say.
** an Harry says the belts were designed to be intentionally addictive, they weren't made simply to be used, but to corrupt in that usage.
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