The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
Wizard Sibelis:
--- Quote from: Fcrate on July 11, 2018, 10:36:15 AM ---Don't you mean Watson? Lol
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Face palm all day lol..
--- Quote ---Actually, groinkick, your personal theory suggests that we're not inherently capable of evil. I disagree. From my understanding, black magic isn't much different from white, both come from inside of you, you believe in both of them, it's just a matter of circumstance which one comes forth. Like healing a distraught mind attack victim instead of twisting him or her further to your own purposes. Like setting a whole party on fire, killing a few innocents to help yourself and your friends escape. Knowledge of the fact that there were innocents and still choosing to kill them is black magic.
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I don't disagree that humans already possess that same alloy, but that doesn't make it inherently their nature. The yin-yang symbol is a great metaphor here, Yang is always yang even though it possesses yin, but what if it started acting more and more 'yin' over it's nature of yang? Would it not conform to a new identity? (I like to, btw, liken DR to that dot within the other, that balance of the two poles by containing at it's core the other)
vultur:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 10, 2018, 11:52:24 AM ---No, it is not, go back and read Turn Coat the warning Harry gives her is pretty stern that her head was on the line along with his.. He made if very clear that she was violating the Laws no matter what her motivation was.
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In Turn Coat, checking Luccio for corruption was definitely against the Law (as enforced by the Council, whether or not it would be corrupting). I think it was still justifiable, though.
In Changes, editing Harry's memory probably wasn't against the Law, since he asked her to. I think it was more morally questionable, though (not in the "black magic corruption" sense, just the regular human sense).
--- Quote from: Fcrate on July 11, 2018, 10:36:15 AM ---Like setting a whole party on fire, killing a few innocents to help yourself and your friends escape. Knowledge of the fact that there were innocents and still choosing to kill them is black magic.
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The bit in Grave Peril is a bit more questionable, IMO, because he didn't do it to help them escape, he did it to destroy the vampires. If he were consciously sacrificing innocents, sure, that would definitely be black magic. But the way it's written it doesn't seem like he was really aware that some of them were still alive, and he was at least partly avenging their deaths; it looks like he realized later (after he woke up with Michael), reviewing his memory of the events, that they weren't all dead.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: vultur on July 10, 2018, 03:13:47 AM ---I think that is the same thing as the taint.
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Personally, I think it's more that Molly keeps looking to magic to solve problems.
--- Quote ---I don't think so. With the taint removed, if you explained to them that doing that did more harm than good, if their real motivation was to do good then they wouldn't do it any more.*
But even if not, a clever Blackstaff could get around that... You wouldn't have to attack their motivations at all, just make them not think of using magic in that particular way (exactly like what Mab did to Harry).
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Well, both of these rely on each other, so first I'll point out that what Mab did to Harry was stupid, dangerous, and necessary. When Harry realized what had been done to him, he had a total freaking meltdown in Michael's shed. He literally did not understand the words "blasting rod."
That was after a day. Imagine what it would do to a person if it came apart after a month, or a year—suddenly realizing that you were not who you thought you were for an extended time. I think you'd have some fundamentally fractured psyches.
As far as the first, I disagree. I think you'll get some who will understand the damage they're doing, but there will be others who will see a problem that is too difficult to solve without magic, and they'll fall back on it, even if their intentions are good. I honestly think that the only way to make sure they don't do it again is if they set aside their magic, which brings me to my next point:
--- Quote ---Well, it seems to have worked for Harry... the Winter Mantle temptations have nothing to do with black-magic corruption. He really hasn't shown any signs of that since he got rid of Lasciel's coin, arguably not since well before that (all the anger stuff in PG-WN might have been pure Lasciel influence; I'm not sure anything since GP is confidently attributable to black-magic effects).
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Yeah, I know it's the Winter Mantle. I don't think Harry was ever tainted to begin with. I just think that he spent his childhood getting pushed around, then his teenage years getting abused, until he finally was strong enough to stand up for himself. Occasionally, he feels like using that strength to curbstomp his enemies. That's entirely normal; I get that feeling on occasion too.
But Molly certainly IS tainted.
--- Quote ---Also, every time Molly uses mind magic after PG it seems pretty justifiable, even if technically against the Council's laws (confirming manipulation on Harry in SmF and Luccio in TC*), and Harry was willing in Changes so I don't think that even counts as against the Laws.
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Yeah, and she's been entirely stable since Changes, right? What about all of the murders she committed as the Rag Lady? She has a meltdown explaining how easy it is to kill crooked cops with magic, and it's pretty obvious she's messed up, and not just from screwing with Harry's head.
I don't particularly care about the Laws, as I think that they're unnecessarily byzantine, but there really is no way to reform warlocks after a certain point, regardless of their motives. I mean, Molly was protecting Chicago, but still outright killing people with her magic, even though there were A) other options available, and B) she knew it would screw her up further.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Wizard Sibelis on July 11, 2018, 09:13:47 AM ---Precisely my good Doctor Holmes(sorry, I get to be Sherlock :) )
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lol
Mira:
--- Quote ---In Turn Coat, checking Luccio for corruption was definitely against the Law (as enforced by the Council, whether or not it would be corrupting). I think it was still justifiable, though.
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Agreed, however for someone already under the Doom, I seriously doubt the Senior Council would give her another bite of the apple... What Harry's point was that it is very dangerous for Molly to decide when it is or isn't justified to break the Law.. Remember that is what got her into trouble in the first place, not breaking a law she didn't know existed but thinking she could go into her friend's mind without thinking through the consequences... She hadn't learned her lesson is what he was saying.
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