The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
vultur:
--- Quote from: Kindler on July 09, 2018, 05:37:33 PM --- Molly hasn't used black magic for years, but she still comes awful close to hitting Luccio in Turn Coat, saying something like "I wanted to make her understand." Molly knows it's wrong (morally and legally) to do that, but she still feels the urge, though she thankfully recognized it and stopped it.
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I think that is the same thing as the taint.
--- Quote --- Removing the taint from this do-gooder goes well, but they still want to help, right? To circumvent that, they either need to voluntarily not use magic in that way, through some kind of extended support group, psychological help, or whatever. Or, someone has to go into their head and mess around until they no longer want to use magic for that purpose. How could they do that without attacking their initial motivation, which was the desire to help those less fortunate? Wouldn't that make them a fundamentally worse person?
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I don't think so. With the taint removed, if you explained to them that doing that did more harm than good, if their real motivation was to do good then they wouldn't do it any more.*
But even if not, a clever Blackstaff could get around that... You wouldn't have to attack their motivations at all, just make them not think of using magic in that particular way (exactly like what Mab did to Harry).
--- Quote ---The way I see it, the only way to reform a warlock is for them to set aside their magic after removing the taint.
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Well, it seems to have worked for Harry... the Winter Mantle temptations have nothing to do with black-magic corruption. He really hasn't shown any signs of that since he got rid of Lasciel's coin, arguably not since well before that (all the anger stuff in PG-WN might have been pure Lasciel influence; I'm not sure anything since GP is confidently attributable to black-magic effects).
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 09, 2018, 08:29:32 PM ---
It suggests that if you get them early and they really want you certainly can have an effect. All of those falling of the wagon incidents have been discussed here and none of them have been conclusive. They were all open for discussion. And given the stress they are both under I think that is quite remarkable.
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Also, every time Molly uses mind magic after PG it seems pretty justifiable, even if technically against the Council's laws (confirming manipulation on Harry in SmF and Luccio in TC*), and Harry was willing in Changes so I don't think that even counts as against the Laws.
*The Council not allowing you to check for that is flat out suicidal on an organizational level in a world with White Court and a Black Council. Hopefully they've softened on that after TC... If checks for influence were standard for the Senior Council and the Wardens, Peabody could never have done all that damage.
Wizard Sibelis:
--- Quote from: peregrine on July 10, 2018, 02:55:32 AM ---Changes Chapter 46
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indeed the tool itself wants to kill, not the wielder.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Sanya was surely cured and he did it himself. Cassius however was not even after he lost his coin. Centuries of whispering are not erased that easily either.
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You can call it a "cure" I guess, but Sanya gave up the coin of his own free will, and redeemed himself of his own free will.. The coin had nothing to do with that , comparing the coins to the blackstaff is apple and oranges...
--- Quote ---Also, every time Molly uses mind magic after PG it seems pretty justifiable, even if technically against the Council's laws (confirming manipulation on Harry in SmF and Luccio in TC*), and Harry was willing in Changes so I don't think that even counts as against the Laws.
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No, it is not, go back and read Turn Coat the warning Harry gives her is pretty stern that her head was on the line along with his.. He made if very clear that she was violating the Laws no matter what her motivation was.
--- Quote ---Changes Chapter 46
Quote
The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible.
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Yeah, and I believe that Eb told Harry at some point that it leaves it's mark on the wielder but at the moment the exact quote escapes me.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 10, 2018, 11:52:24 AM ---You can call it a "cure" I guess, but Sanya gave up the coin of his own free will, and redeemed himself of his own free will.. The coin had nothing to do with that , comparing the coins to the blackstaff is apple and oranges...
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No comparison is 100% correct because then things would be identical but it is about how a comparison can help us. Some people can cure themselves and that is exactly what Sanya started when he threw away the coin.
He was helped by the insight he got when he heard the other denarians talk about him. A beginning warlock might get insights in other ways. Part of the problem is that young wizards have little or no knowledge about the dangers.
--- Quote ---No, it is not, go back and read Turn Coat the warning Harry gives her is pretty stern that her head was on the line along with his.. He made if very clear that she was violating the Laws no matter what her motivation was.
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Sure it is but Harry's interpretation is pretty stern and he was trying to keep Molly safe. Molly did something similar when she looked at Harry in small favor and Luccio, who is sometimes somewhat more relaxed, did not say a thing. This is again a gray area.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Sure it is but Harry's interpretation is pretty stern and he was trying to keep Molly safe. Molly did something similar when she looked at Harry in small favor and Luccio, who is sometimes somewhat more relaxed, did not say a thing. This is again a gray area.
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No, not a gray area, whatever her motive, she broke the Law...
Turn Coat page256
--- Quote ---"You broke the Laws of Magic, Molly. Willfully. Even though you knew it could cost you your life. Even though you knew that it could also cost mine.
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Not a gray area at all, it could have cost them both their heads... Highlighted by Morgan's dying words to Harry about Molly...
page 394 Turn Coat
--- Quote ---"I didn't tell them about Molly. What she tried to do to Ana. I. . . I didn't tell.
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A couple of things going on, he is telling Harry in his own way that he was sorry for being such a hard ass with him. He is telling him that he has hope that it will work out for Molly, that basically she is a good person.. However it doesn't change the fact that if he had turned her in, she would have lost her head, and along with it Harry would have lost his head. She did break the Law of Magic, and would have paid the price if Morgan had turned her in.
--- Quote ---No comparison is 100% correct because then things would be identical but it is about how a comparison can help us. Some people can cure themselves and that is exactly what Sanya started when he threw away the coin.
He was helped by the insight he got when he heard the other denarians talk about him. A beginning warlock might get insights in other ways. Part of the problem is that young wizards have little or no knowledge about the dangers.
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Except that isn't how the blackstaff works, there is only one, and the wielder is assigned the office to wield it... Yes, free will to accept the office, also the blackstaff isn't constantly in Eb's head, unlike the Fallen of the Coins.. True, young wizards have little knowledge when their talents awake without guidance from a mentor, but again this has nothing to do with the blackstaff... If it were so simple that a young would be warlock could be so easily cured, why isn't Eb busily waving it at would be warlocks instead of them getting their heads lopped off?
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