The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What's Odin's stake in things?
Mira:
--- Quote from: exartiem on July 01, 2018, 01:41:54 PM ---It could be that Odin lost a good deal of power to move to the mortal realm. He probably couldn't take on the LOONs directly anymore, they'd gang up on him and kill him. But he could show up and fight their minions.
Or, it could also be that the White Court aren't the only ones who like to use cat's paws.
--- End quote ---
I wonder if faith has anything to do with his power? The old gods may still exist but most people do not believe in them anymore.. The power is only as good as the power of people's faith in them. Odin has tried to adjust with the times and his form of power has evolved, but it is nothing like it used to be.
raidem:
Well, Odin's stake in things is all about Ragnarok. So, I presume the ultimate Ragnarok would be Outsider winning the Universe. His forte is foresight to prevent that from happening. Hmm, it makes me wonder what it would be like if Nemesis got a hold of Odin.
How would Harry best Nemesis Odin? Maybe OdinRemnant would leave just a bit of an opening for Harry to take advantage in a foresight contest against himself.
huangjimmy108:
--- Quote from: vultur on June 30, 2018, 04:54:52 AM ---I noticed something re-reading Changes. Odin demonstrates the "crushing will" power on Harry, and tells Harry that "in the Lords of Outer Night, even the remnants of that power are more than you can face as you are". With the very strong implication that Harry needs to get an external power boost to resist the LoON's will.
But, in the actual confrontation, Harry's Winter Knight powers don't really seem to be involved in resisting the will of the Red King and LoON. In the first confrontation, after Harry kills Arianna, it's Bob's spiritual defense and then Murphy drawing the Sword (or maybe the archangel's pronouncement that happens then). And in the second confrontation at the very end, Harry is starting to push back - but what actually frees him is Lea killing a couple of them and distracting the others.
Also, Odin strongly hints that he can't help Harry - he says that he's no longer strong enough, and that this has to be handled by mortals. But then he shows up and fights anyway.
I mean, Harry ends up needing the Winter Knight Mantle anyway to fix his broken back. But Odin's big on foresight... if Odin had instead told Harry that Bob and the Swords could protect him from the Lords of Outer Night's will, would events have played out differently? Maybe Harry wouldn't have ended up breaking his back...
But, why does Odin want Harry to be Winter Knight? He's tied to Winter as Kringle, but that doesn't seem like enough by itself.
--- End quote ---
Well, for one thing, saying that the winter mantle does not help against will attack is untrue. Against Odin, a single godly entity, Harry before the mantle can't even stand up. He lay there like a upside down turtle. With the mantle, against the entire Loa, Harry could still stand, though he can't move. The difference is quite big.
The resisttance granted by the mantle allow Harry to give a fight when he finally face off with the red king in the sacrificial chamber. Otherwise, Harry won't even stand a chance.
As for Odin making an appearance during the battle at CY despite saying that he could not help. Well, Harry ask for overt help like sending an army of einghenjars and Valkyrie. I am certain that Odin is sying the truth when he said he can't grant that kind of help. Also, we don't know what kind of rules bound immortal beings during conflict. If we pay attention, the book never actually show Odin participating in a fight. Odin open a gateway and send a bunch of grey council wizards. he is present sure, but I don't remember the book mentioning Odin actually attacking personally. So in a way, Odin indeed can't help, not directly. He can assist however. Besides, even if Odin indeed lie to Harry about not helping, it is an understandable strategy. If Harry know that Odin would come help, his attitude might change and that in turn may result in the red court discovering something. Harry going to see Odin mostly does not escape the RC intelligence network.
As for Odin wanting Harry to become winter knight. Well, in hindsight the reason should be clear. Assuming that Odin has foresight, and with him being Kringle and all, he of all people must have known about Maeve, and how the winter court are in trouble. Red court cooperating with outsiders, black council and so on. Pushing Harry to become the winter knight is, in hindsight, something Odin would do. It seems to work out splendidly. If Harry is not the winter knight, the prison of demonreach probably would have been breached. In his place, with all his knowledge and foresight, he has all the reason to push Harry to become the winter knight.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: vultur on June 30, 2018, 04:54:52 AM ---But, why does Odin want Harry to be Winter Knight? He's tied to Winter as Kringle, but that doesn't seem like enough by itself.
--- End quote ---
There are those in the White Council who want to kill Harry because they think he's so dangerous (Warden, Paranet, possible warlock). Per woj one of the things that have stopped them is because Harry is the Winter Knight, and they don't want to have to answer to Mab. So Odin may have seen that Harry's life was in danger from the Council, and he helped move Harry into a position that would grant him a form of protection.
He also probably knew that one day Harry might want to remove the Mantle without dying. Odin may have a way and now is in a position to offer Harry a way out if he grants him a favor.
Mira:
--- Quote from: groinkick on July 01, 2018, 06:29:19 PM ---There are those in the White Council who want to kill Harry because they think he's so dangerous (Warden, Paranet, possible warlock). Per woj one of the things that have stopped them is because Harry is the Winter Knight, and they don't want to have to answer to Mab. So Odin may have seen that Harry's life was in danger from the Council, and he helped move Harry into a position that would grant him a form of protection.
He also probably knew that one day Harry might want to remove the Mantle without dying. Odin may have a way and now is in a position to offer Harry a way out if he grants him a favor.
--- End quote ---
What stopped them before he became Winter Knight? That didn't happen until Changes.
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