The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Assuming Nicodemus got the Coin out.....

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Arjan:

--- Quote from: peregrine on June 22, 2018, 03:28:47 PM ---It can not like it all it wants, I'm pretty sure a true Fallen Angel would stomp the hell out of it if it came down to it.

--- End quote ---
If it is allowed to do so, I think not.

There is a recent video where Jim talks about what would happen if a red court vampire tried to take over a white one and the demon would fight it.

But the fallen will not try to take over, it will try to seduce and that is different and the fallen must offer more than the usual package for humans.

Snark Knight:

--- Quote from: WereElephant on June 22, 2018, 03:27:07 PM ---Interesting thought, but from what I understand, the current consensus is Papa Raith gets his immunity to enemy magic from HWWB. Deirdre's Denarian was on Team Nic, and wouldn't cooperate with the Walker. Opposing agenda.
...
From where we last saw her, Lara isn't in a great position. She could be persuaded to take more power.
Yes, the WN Deeps Battle devastated (not decimated) her opposition in the White Court, and let House Raith effectively take control. I imagine it will take the other houses decades or centuries to become contenders again. However, her House was wounded as well, and with Papa Raith (please make that a pizza joint) on a leash, the other houses were still somewhat beholden to her bidding. Their losses count as her losses in any conflict where the White Court would stand unified.
Also, remember Shagnasty. That Skinwalker waltzed right into Raith manor and made a field day out of ripping her personal guards apart in her very home. News of that demonstrates vulnerability, and news like that spreads. It also must have rattled her.

--- End quote ---

The Circle - who are all but confirmed to be Outsider affiliates - was trying to take Lord Raith out in White Night. It's possible that how the shield was set up means the Outsider(s) are stuck sponsoring it no matter who Raith is controlled by, so long as he lives. But I'm not sure the shield means he's necessarily still immune to everything Harry can throw at it anyway. Harry has learned a lot since BR, including getting better at recognizing Outsiders' handiwork, and that he has some sort of edge over them that other wizards don't.I'm thinking it might not be a coincidence that the death curse Margaret was able to tag him with despite his "invulnerability" was cast as she was giving birth to a starborn. Winter's power might be another advantage, given how hard it reacted to the other walker he fought in CD when combined with soulfire.

As for Lara' position, it's also relevant that Thomas mentioned in CD that the expansion in her power base has been getting scarily significant lately. I doubt she'd be hard pressed to keep Skavis and Malvora in line if she had to now; it's just that under white court culture she just prefers manipulation even after growing beyond absolutely needing it. Plus, there are probably other ambitious members of her own family that would decline to exactly fall into line.

huangjimmy108:

--- Quote from: WereElephant on June 22, 2018, 03:27:07 PM ---Uriel and Michael would both disagree, as per their comments and disposition toward Harry during his time with Lasciel and the denouement of Ghost Story.

Interesting thought, but from what I understand, the current consensus is Papa Raith gets his immunity to enemy magic from HWWB. Deirdre's Denarian was on Team Nic, and wouldn't cooperate with the Walker. Opposing agenda.

From where we last saw her, Lara isn't in a great position. She could be persuaded to take more power.

Yes, the WN Deeps Battle devastated (not decimated) her opposition in the White Court, and let House Raith effectively take control. I imagine it will take the other houses decades or centuries to become contenders again. However, her House was wounded as well, and with Papa Raith (please make that a pizza joint) on a leash, the other houses were still somewhat beholden to her bidding. Their losses count as her losses in any conflict where the White Court would stand unified.

Also, remember Shagnasty. That Skinwalker waltzed right into Raith manor and made a field day out of ripping her personal guards apart in her very home. News of that demonstrates vulnerability, and news like that spreads. It also must have rattled her.

I don't believe she's been onscreen since Turn Coat (unless short stories - need to catch up on those), so I don't know how well the White Court is handling the Fomor. They mentioned something in Ghost Story with the Whamp at Murphy's but details escape me presently. I think they had their hands full, though.

Given these circumstances, I absolutely think Lara would like a power boost, for either the organization, herself, or both. She wouldn't like being at the mercy of a Fallen, but unlike Papa Raith, I don't see a conflict of interest in such an alliance. She could be persuaded, I think.

--- End quote ---

The forces of Hell and the outsiders are not mutually exclusive, at least not at the individual level.

I mean, we can be reasonably certain that there is a Judas within the ranks of the Denarians. The main suspect is Roassanna for now. This Judas is most probably member of the circle which are very likely to be colluding with outsiders.

In other words, there is already an example of a Denarian cooperating with outsiders. Rosaana and her fallen is already colluding with walkers.

If there is one, there can be two.

groinkick:

--- Quote from: huangjimmy108 on June 23, 2018, 01:14:03 AM ---The forces of Hell and the outsiders are not mutually exclusive, at least not at the individual level.

I mean, we can be reasonably certain that there is a Judas within the ranks of the Denarians. The main suspect is Roassanna for now. This Judas is most probably member of the circle which are very likely to be colluding with outsiders.

In other words, there is already an example of a Denarian cooperating with outsiders. Rosaana and her fallen is already colluding with walkers.

If there is one, there can be two.

--- End quote ---

Denarians are locked in the Coins for the very reason that Lucy doesn't trust them.  As Jim said, Lucy's basically having an argument with God, but doesn't want to destroy reality, and in some ways that makes Nicodemus more dangerous.

Fcrate:
How about Cassandra's tears' Lydia from Grave Peril? Now that would be a reasonable choice, she's not completely stable, and a former drug addict and would be easy enough to manipulate. She has a history with Harry, which makes for a very decent spy/assassin.

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