The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Are there more wizards like Elaine?
vultur:
--- Quote from: Fcrate on June 28, 2018, 08:22:55 PM ---Exactly. Besides, wardens get to kill on suspicion.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure that's actually true. Harry does say that once, but it's when he's trying to intimidate somebody. Even Morgan, who seems to be pretty uniquely extreme among the Wardens we've seen, waited for proof in Storm Front -- because he followed the rules. If Wardens were actually allowed to kill on suspicion, he'd have killed Harry as soon as the first heart-exploded corpses turned up.
Now, a Warden who did kill on suspicion could almost certainly get away with it -- Molly's trial was the first in ten or twelve years -- but I think that they are supposed to wait for solid evidence (Sight, soulgaze or whatever), even if they don't go through the procedure of a trial.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 29, 2018, 04:44:11 PM --- If he really didn't believe in the Council do you think he would have encouraged Molly to turn herself in? Yeah, it was close and political, but in the end Harry and Molly carried the day. What chance would she have had had she decided to run, not just from getting the chop, but from becoming a full blown warlock?
--- End quote ---
That bit actually has always struck me as a bit odd. He really doesn't otherwise show signs of trusting the Council/Wardens that much... every time I read that part of PG I'm like "why don't you just confront Molly about it yourself and not tell anyone in the Council"? He could have still taken her as an apprentice.
I guess it's because Harry figured the Gatekeeper really knew what was going on from the beginning. (That's the only reason I can see why Harry seems to think Molly would get caught anyway -- Harry is the Regional Warden Commander for that area, and the Wardens are really really busy. Without the Gatekeeper, there'd be basically zero chance of her getting caught if Harry covered for her.)
--- Quote from: Kindler on June 29, 2018, 03:50:48 PM ---he feels like they're bureaucratic jerks who play politics instead of doing real work to help. That, by the way, also seems to match Eb's perspective relatively closely.
--- End quote ---
Which seems pretty accurate from what we've seen them do.
Look how far the plan in WN got -- and it only got interrupted at all because Madrigal was intentionally taunting Harry into investigating. Something like that is precisely what the Council ought to be watching for, since they claim authority over all mortal practitioners.
And... they talk a lot about protecting humanity, but don't seem to actually do that much. There were 40 years or so between Kemmler's final death and the Vampire War, and the Wardens didn't manage to catch Grevane, Corpsetaker, etc. despite knowing who they were (Luccio certainly did) - one would think they'd be pretty high priority targets.
And ghouls don't seem to be Accords signatories - why hasn't the Council gone after them and other "unaffiliated" supernatural predators that prey on humanity? The Council's laws clearly don't consider them to be "people", so why aren't they long extinct?
Fcrate:
They didn't stop the plan in WN because as the organization stands now, they are obsolete. Far too little wardens, not enough duties assigned to regular council members, very old and ineffective system of information management and intelligence gathering. A history of fear and mistrust towards the wardens that the whites played on. The wardens getting nearly wiped out in dead beat is probably the best thing that happened to them as an organization; New blood will help revitalise things and change the negative image the mortal practitioners think of the council. But they still need a major change in their entire system (And hierarchy)
About the ghouls and other unaffiliated supernatural predators, I assume they didn't exterminate them in fear of retaliation. Or escalation. Think of what the reds would have done if the council exterminated their favorite hirelings? If they show too much power AND willingness to protect humans from predators, said predators will surely gang up on them and wipe the council out. I'm not saying it's the correct attitude, but I do see the point. If that indeed was the reason.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Fcrate on June 30, 2018, 07:39:50 AM ---They didn't stop the plan in WN because as the organization stands now, they are obsolete.
--- End quote ---
Yes, exactly.
--- Quote --- A history of fear and mistrust towards the wardens that the whites played on.
--- End quote ---
True... but that fear and mistrust is the result of the White Council's policies, so it's still their own flaws that allowed the situation to occur. If they'd been on top of things and set up something equivalent to the Paranet a century or so ago, the problem would never have arisen.
--- Quote --- But they still need a major change in their entire system (And hierarchy)
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I don't know if it is salvageable without a total re-structuring. "Rule by the oldest" just doesn't work in a rapidly changing world. And basically ignoring the vast majority of mortal practitioners as irrelevant unless they break a Law is also a bad idea.
--- Quote ---About the ghouls and other unaffiliated supernatural predators, I assume they didn't exterminate them in fear of retaliation. Or escalation. Think of what the reds would have done if the council exterminated their favorite hirelings? If they show too much power AND willingness to protect humans from predators, said predators will surely gang up on them and wipe the council out.
--- End quote ---
In the current era of the books, sure. But what about two or three centuries ago? The Vampire War was close because the Reds could use mortal technology and (probably far more importantly) because the Circle/Black Council was both messing up the White Council's war plans and helping out the Red Court by summoning Outsiders and such. The Reds' significant victories were due to those advantages, not their own assets. I can't see them daring to declare war in, say, 1700 AD over ghouls -- it would be incredibly one-sided.
Arjan:
--- Quote ---Harry's joined the wizard secret
police!" Bob burbled. "He gets to convict on suspicion and take
justice into his own hands! How cool is that!
--- End quote ---
Nobody contradicted him :)
Which doesn’t mean they all do but a rotten apple can get away with a lot.
Besides, he served warden Justin for years, he should know.
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