Author Topic: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."  (Read 3167 times)

Offline Chris McCubbin

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"Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« on: April 14, 2018, 03:17:03 AM »
I've been rereading Dead Beat, and one thing really jumped out...
When Harry is helpless at the feet of Cassius/Liver Spots, expecting to be tortured to death, he thinks about Shiro and decides that his best tactic is to stall in hopes of divine intervention, probably in the form of one of the Knights. He figures that as a former Denarian Cassius has a karmic connection to the Knights, and also the total depravity of the necromancers would tend to attract disapproving heavenly attention. In Harry's own words, "In my own experience, I had noticed that when something truly, deeply evil arose, one of the Knights tended to show up."
This goes on for several paragraphs. Butcher makes it kind of a big deal.
Here's the thing ... when Harry is rescued a couple pages later it's not Michael or Sanya who saves him ... but Waldo Butters (ably assisted by Mouse) performing what is probably the first physically heroic act of his life ...
So what I'm wondering is ... is this just a cool coincidence, or was Butcher actually foreshadowing Butters destiny as a Knight a full eight books before his actual recruitment?

Sorry if this has been thoroughly hashed over previously. I'm new here.

Offline groinkick

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 04:35:08 AM »
I'm not sure.  Jim has said Butters was going to be a throw away character but then really starting liking him.  So I guess there is a chance that he did realize he wanted him to be a Knight, and dropped those hints.
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Offline Avernite

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 06:42:06 AM »
Harry and Uriel discuss it in Skin Game, so at elast in hindsight it was deliberate; what the author was thinking at the time of Dead Beat is anyone's guess ;)

Though Harry has been saved by friends instead of Knights at several other times.

Offline raidem

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 01:16:33 PM »
I'm thinking Jim at least had that as a possibility in mind when he wrote it.  He could have not had butters become a knight, but...
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Offline Talby16

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 02:35:17 PM »
I think while Butters was intended as a throw away character, Jim wrote this scene as a foundation to possibly build a future friendship/debt on if he so needed. The fact that the story evolved so that in Uriel's words "an incipient Knight of the Cross rescued Harry from a former Denarian" is a cool fact in hindsight.

Offline Kindler

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 01:23:07 PM »
It's certainly canon, after the discussion toward the end of Skin Game. I'm not sure it was deliberate at the time, for a host of reasons. Here's why I think it wasn't:

1. As originally planned, Molly was supposed to be tagging along, as Proven Guilty and Dead Beat were swapped in publication order, because Dead Beat was going to be his first hardcover, and few things are more awesome and exciting than riding a zombie dinosaur through Chicago. A lot of the conversations between Butters and Harry sound an awful lot like an apprentice asking for more information. Jim slapped Butters in there because he liked him a lot, and having a medical examiner/polka enthusiast along for the ride in a zombie book is pretty awesome.

It still works, of course, and Dead Beat is probably my favorite before Turn Coat/Changes. But it's not really an incident that was in the cards from the start, though that doesn't discount the possibility that Jim rejiggered things when adding Butters in.

2. Jim still hadn't decided what route Harry was going to take at the end of Changes. He wasn't sure if he was going to go with a Coin, pull off a Darkhallow of his own, become the Winter Knight, or whatever other options he could cook up.

3. Butters was being reintroduced to the series as a staple side character in Dead Beat. He was supposed to be a one-off in Death Masks. Because Jim liked Butters and wanted to use him here, I think he was figuring out how he would fit into the series on an ongoing basis.

Arguments in favor of it being deliberate:

1. I think that this particular incident was what made Butters able to become a Knight of the Cross. If he hadn't come charging in right then, I don't think he would've found the courage to do so later on in the series. This was a truly brave choice, and one he didn't have to make. I think it set him on a path of serial bravery that led him to become Discount Batman, and eventually Sir Butters.

2. The previous (only) time we saw Butters was Death Masks, the last time we saw Liver Spots. Butters showed up for the first time right after we first found out Denarians were a thing. It's hard to argue coincidence in a series where destiny is kind of a thing. It's also additionally symmetrical, as it's kind of Butters finishing what he started.

3. Jim is a serial seed-planter. He really seems to enjoy putting in tiny details that don't pay off for a few books.

Can't really think of much else at the moment.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: "Something truly, deeply evil ..."
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 04:05:27 PM »
Could be a case of Jim putting it in and not "realizing" right away what it foreshadowed.

A case of Butcher finding out something about the world rather than deciding something about the world. It's a thing that happens to authors from time to time.
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