The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Previous Warden theory
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on April 03, 2018, 08:54:48 PM ---Nah, Id day it's just solidified into a Maybe. There was always that one line in TC that seemed to Juxtapose the two, making it reasonable (if not my own preferred theory) that she was at some point tapped to be the Warden somewhere,
--- End quote ---
When I read that line in Ebenezar's journal, I think it can reasonably be read in two ways. That is, Eb could have been expressing one of two thoughts in those words.
Eb, when writing this, has just learned that Harry has gone and made himself THE Warden. This is a freaking Big Deal, Harry himself doesn't yet understand how big, of course, he doesn't even know that's what he's done.
Eb writes that he can't think of anybody he'd trust more to handle that position than Harry...and then adds that he thought the same about Margaret. But what exactly did he mean? It might mean that Eb (and other high-ups in the Council) had in mind Margaret to become THE Warden eventually, had faith in her for the role, and then Margaret went and turned into Margaret and Did The Stuff She Did.
Or, it could simply mean that Eb has just expressed his great faith in Harry, but muses that he once had great faith in Margaret, too, and she proved him wrong. It could be a general sort of thought, not specific to THE Wardenship.
As I said, either interpretation is reasonable. You can make a circumstantial case for either.
For ex, there was the infamous Dinner Party that Margaret threw with Lord Raith, Aramina, Eb, etc. Eb says she suggested Something there, something that made Eb blow up, not just refuse but tell her she was off the beam for wanting it, and storm out.
Well, it might be that she suggested letting someone or something out of Demonreach once she eventually became the Warden, and Eb didn't take it well. But it's just as probable that she suggested something totally different, unrelated to Demonreach. We don't even know if she knew anything about Demonreach, back then.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: kazimmoinuddin on April 03, 2018, 09:57:22 PM ---Kemmler was a huge evil threat, said to have many truly dark allies. Some of which would be the type to be confined in the well. So it makes sense for the warden to be involved in the conflict.
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But unless it went down on the island, the Warden probably wouldn't be all that relevant (unless he was involved in some other capacity). Remember, JB has told us that the power of Alfred depends on your GPS coordinates. If you're on the island, THE Warden has serious power, the kind of power even Mab or Titania can't take lightly. Off the island, Alfred is powerless and the Warden is just this Wizard.
(One of the ironic things about the showdown in Turn Coat, where Harry dropping a bluff challenge to the Senior Council, is that he picked probably the one place in the world where he might just be able to back it up, and had no idea that's what he had done.)
So unless the final throwdown with Kemmler happened on the island, I'm not sure the Warden would be directly involved.
Rasins:
LordDresden2,
I'm of the opinion that the dinner party was to get the Vampires and the Wouncil to become allies and take over the Outer Gates. We know she traveled the Ways extensively. That would suggest that she knew about the Outer Gates, and who was defending it. I think she saw the need for shock troops (that the Vampires could produce fairly quickly) and the need for Magic (which the Wouncil would bring to the table.)
I think Eb KNEW that the Vampires couldn't be trusted, and didn't want to be part of the scheme.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on April 04, 2018, 01:45:04 AM ---But unless it went down on the island, the Warden probably wouldn't be all that relevant (unless he was involved in some other capacity). Remember, JB has told us that the power of Alfred depends on your GPS coordinates. If you're on the island, THE Warden has serious power, the kind of power even Mab or Titania can't take lightly. Off the island, Alfred is powerless and the Warden is just this Wizard.
(One of the ironic things about the showdown in Turn Coat, where Harry dropping a bluff challenge to the Senior Council, is that he picked probably the one place in the world where he might just be able to back it up, and had no idea that's what he had done.)
So unless the final throwdown with Kemmler happened on the island, I'm not sure the Warden would be directly involved.
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Just a devil's advocate statement here but The Warden is likely the only thing in existence that Alfred cares about off his own island. So even if Demonreach and/or the office of the Warden arent directly involved, Id call it possible that he might still hold a grudge against those responsible for it (though noticing things like Mab would still be easier than your more short-lived things).
--- Quote from: Rasins on April 04, 2018, 04:01:54 PM ---LordDresden2,
I'm of the opinion that the dinner party was to get the Vampires and the Wouncil to become allies and take over the Outer Gates. We know she traveled the Ways extensively. That would suggest that she knew about the Outer Gates, and who was defending it. I think she saw the need for shock troops (that the Vampires could produce fairly quickly) and the need for Magic (which the Wouncil would bring to the table.)
I think Eb KNEW that the Vampires couldn't be trusted, and didn't want to be part of the scheme.
--- End quote ---
Its certainly possible. One hitch in that particular version of the plan is that Vampires arent all that great at mass-reproduction unless you already have a viable supply of living mortal food to convert. I suspect one reason the Fae do it currently is that they have evolved heightened breeding drives and mechanisms to make them more viable.
WereElephant:
--- Quote from: Rasins on April 02, 2018, 07:24:18 PM ---My personal theory is that Kemmler was the previous WARDEN.
When the Council was taking Kemmler down, one of the times, probably the last one, is when Rashid "Focused the Tank" and pissed DR off, by distracting DR from protecting his WARDEN.
Absent any other evidence, I'm sticking with that one.
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Don't think it could be the last time, per this WoJ: http://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-other-bad-guys-beyond-the-outer-gates-demonreach/
--- Quote --- We were told in Dead Beat that Kemmler was finally killed in 1961. Looking online, I found that the Tsar Bomb (largest man-made explosion ever) was detonated on Halloween eve, 1961. Is this a coincidence, a coverup by the various authorities of the showdown that took place, or the direct result of Kemmler’s Death Curse?
You read too much. :)
--- End quote ---
This suggests that Kemmler's last stand was nowhere near Demonreach.
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