The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Changes and the Curse that....
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on February 28, 2018, 11:25:17 AM ---Super ego actually, if it was supposed to be his conscious mind. Ego is more like what Harry's mantle would be formed out of, self identity, baggage.
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Eh, it gets a little more complex than that once you jump to the full ID/Ego/Super-Ego model. Both ego and Super-ego has conscious and unconscious elements, they just had different goals and methods.
Best I've foudn was the Iceberg explanation:
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: kazimmoinuddin on February 27, 2018, 02:25:57 AM ---Say the Wcv are all descendent from the same progenitor, such a ritual would remove their demon.
I have long suspected there is a link between Drakul and the BCV. So if the ritual is done on him, it could permanently deal with the BCV.
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There is, but it's indirect. Per WOJ:
--- Quote ---And also what is Drakul a scion of?
Drakul wasn’t a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form. Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father’s approval.
It didn’t work out so well.
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jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on February 28, 2018, 01:58:44 PM ---Eh, it gets a little more complex than that once you jump to the full ID/Ego/Super-Ego model. Both ego and Super-ego has conscious and unconscious elements, they just had different goals and methods.
Best I've foudn was the Iceberg explanation:
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Not to me... I mean, i'm kinda ad libbing based upon mine own belief as it has grown up beside the DF, but to me the 'super-consciousness'(because sub or un just don't work for me) as it relates to the super ego is actually the connection between soul and body,(lots of actual theory on that one, from the halo to Taoist alchemy) So anytime the 'unconscious' element of the super ego acts out, it's actually your soul shining through, your genuine nature.(which is backed by super ego being the seat of your religious and ethical principles)
As the connection in the DF is pretty precise on free will/choice basically being a byproduct of soul makes me think it's the conscious mind, the ego more closely related to the identity.(see word origins for greek name/mask ect... or just look in your writing thread on ethical characters, I put part of it in their directly quoted)
Although... perhaps this is erroneous as Hwwb4 was literally a consciousness without soul(no eye's, big give away) so perhaps the superego could be construed as the mind. Been trying to fit your Egyptian make up theory into this one btw...
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on February 28, 2018, 03:47:31 PM ---Not to me... I mean, i'm kinda ad libbing based upon mine own belief as it has grown up beside the DF, but to me the 'super-consciousness'(because sub or un just don't work for me) as it relates to the super ego is actually the connection between soul and body,(lots of actual theory on that one, from the halo to Taoist alchemy) So anytime the 'unconscious' element of the super ego acts out, it's actually your soul shining through, your genuine nature.(which is backed by super ego being the seat of your religious and ethical principles)
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No worries, I just grabbed that from the wikipedia on the Super-ego. I think the split it is trying to capture is the Superego is your Learned Behaviors (cultural inhibitions, etc.) while you Id is your inner desires, and your Ego is the Consciousness that tries to mediate between the two. I never entirely liked that model, or rather I never really liked most of what Freud came up with; he seemed convinced that deep down we are all as horrible and unhappy as he was, the poor depressed coke-fiend. But the general idea of a balancing act between the rational and emotional does ring true with me.
--- Quote ---As the connection in the DF is pretty precise on free will/choice basically being a byproduct of soul makes me think it's the conscious mind, the ego more closely related to the identity.(see word origins for greek name/mask ect... or just look in your writing thread on ethical characters, I put part of it in their directly quoted)
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Ill be honest, Ive long been leaning toward the idea that Id-Harry has simply been Lying and is not a natural part of Harry at all; rather I think he's a more insidious and/or intelligent (Outsider) version of the Hunger Demon that WCV's are born with.
--- Quote ---Although... perhaps this is erroneous as Hwwb4 was literally a consciousness without soul(no eye's, big give away) so perhaps the superego could be construed as the mind. Been trying to fit your Egyptian make up theory into this one btw...
--- End quote ---
Oh lord...I never actually tried to fit Outsiders into that framework too hard, mostly because I've come to think they are trans-dimensional in a way nothing we've met (save the Archangels and maaaaybe the Mothers). Two data-points of support I have for this are Harry's description of HWWb4 being somehow cosmically deeper than even Mab, and also the WOJ that the Outsiders are just themselves and might look different depending on what universe they are invading at the moment.
I do generally see Nemesis and other Outsider possessing spirits (like HWWB4) to be some combination of Spirit and Soul (relative to the level of Nemfection). For the level of Maeve I think Nemesis moved in and took over the place/function that would normally have been occupied by a Soul (just made of Outsider energy rather than Inside-Soul/Creation-Stuff). However that offers enough of a tether that Nemesis can push further and Dominate the Nemfected's Spirit/Intellect.
jonas:
--- Quote ---Ill be honest, Ive long been leaning toward the idea that Id-Harry has simply been Lying and is not a natural part of Harry at all; rather I think he's a more insidious and/or intelligent (Outsider) version of the Hunger Demon that WCV's are born with.
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I lean heavily toward the one who is all evil reflection being. It's how Satan was described for a long time, the inner devil or the thing that could take on your shape. It's classy cause most of those myths start to loosely become related to mirrors.(idk if you've ever seen Constantine but that's basically why he used the mirror on the demon in the beginning)
There's a whole cosmo/theo/mythological thing on it i'm only recently beginning to understand how it interconnects in the DF to other idea's like the shadow, the order of the mind itself, and the mind, body, will triangle.(if so limited)
If I were to do a mock up of a thread sooner or later would it be possible to get some feedback for questions or considerations needed looked at?
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