The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Future Darkhallow
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 27, 2018, 06:09:04 AM ---I wonder if you did it while in possession of the Blackstaff it would give you the power while filtering the negative influence?
--- End quote ---
I doubt it, but that's mostly because of my own preconceived notions on the Sidhe. I think the stone table is their method of absorbing other deities' power through ritualistic sacrifice, but it has to be used carefully, because restrictions come along with that power (hence why the Sidhe are so bound by rules).
If they had a tool or method that got around that, then they'd have used it.
But I might be wrong, which makes my argument moot.
--- Quote from: huangjimmy108 on February 27, 2018, 07:36:08 AM ---A wizard who manage to ascent to immortality using the darkhallow most likely could steal powers from other immortals during Halloween, but the wizard have to ascend first before he can do that. The darkhallow itself cannot steal power from another immortal while the wizard casting it is still mortal.
In book 7 for example. The darkhallow could devour those ghosts and spirits summon by the Urlking and the wild hunt, but I doubt Urlking's personal power will be drained away by the darkhallow even if the casting is completed successfully. If the darkhallow can do that, it is a threat to the Urlking. Urlking wont be so nice to those kemmlerites if that is the case. He would have attacked grevane and cowl instead of hosting the wild hunt.
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Actually, I believe there's WoJ that the Erlking would have died as well. He was a target as well. (Sorry, don't have time to go find it on the new site)
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on February 27, 2018, 12:05:46 PM ---I doubt it, but that's mostly because of my own preconceived notions on the Sidhe. I think the stone table is their method of absorbing other deities' power through ritualistic sacrifice, but it has to be used carefully, because restrictions come along with that power (hence why the Sidhe are so bound by rules).
If they had a tool or method that got around that, then they'd have used it.
But I might be wrong, which makes my argument moot.
--- End quote ---
My understanding of the Stone Table is that it acts as a sort of a Filter to get them around the whole "You Are What You Eat" thing. Normally, if you eat a bunch of Death you'd become a DeathGod, etc. For example, we have WOJ that the Stone Table would have transferred the Energy of the Knight Mantle to the opposite court, as compared to trying to just take and Hold the mantle of the opposite Nature and/or hold both.
Also, I think it's worth keeping in mind that the Stone Table is the primary (or maybe just most efficient) method used by the Summer and Winter Courts, specifically. The Wylde do things their own way(s); for example the Erlking apparently does it a bit more directly (Im assuming as part of his Hunt nature)
--- Quote ---Actually, I believe there's WoJ that the Erlking would have died as well. He was a target as well. (Sorry, don't have time to go find it on the new site)
--- End quote ---
Im fairly confident that there is not, mostly because I recall arguing the opposite for quite some time. But its possible I was arguing differing interpretations of some specific WOJ. I maintained that by all accounts the Hunt (or at least the more physical part Thomas Joined) continued unimpeded through the night, and if the Erlking had been trapped in that spinning vortex and nearly eaten by Kemmlerites, his conversation with Harry afterward would have gone differently (or at least mentioned that Debt as part of his reasoning for letting Harry Live). The Darkhallow was eating /Spirits/ not physical beings, and I strongly believe that any Fairy (from Erlking down to Toot and LED) have enough innate NN travel ability to step across and avoid the Magic Vacuum Fallout. But I dont think we could find anything definitive.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Quantus on February 27, 2018, 01:16:05 PM ---My understanding of the Stone Table is that it acts as a sort of a Filter to get them around the whole "You Are What You Eat" thing. Normally, if you eat a bunch of Death you'd become a DeathGod, etc. For example, we have WOJ that the Stone Table would have transferred the Energy of the Knight Mantle to the opposite court, as compared to trying to just take and Hold the mantle of the opposite Nature and/or hold both.
--- End quote ---
I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense to me. Does this mean that when, for example, Lloyd Slate was killed on the Stone Table, his Winter Knight's Mantle was transferred back to Winter and Mab as pure power, which Mab reshaped back into a Mantle? Or did it not do that because it was Winter Power going to Winter?
--- Quote ---I maintained that by all accounts the Hunt (or at least the more physical part Thomas Joined) continued unimpeded through the night, and if the Erlking had been trapped in that spinning vortex and nearly eaten by Kemmlerites, his conversation with Harry afterward would have gone differently (or at least mentioned that Debt as part of his reasoning for letting Harry Live). The Darkhallow was eating /Spirits/ not physical beings, and I strongly believe that any Fairy (from Erlking down to Toot and LED) have enough innate NN travel ability to step across and avoid the Magic Vacuum Fallout. But I dont think we could find anything definitive.
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For what it's worth, that was my reading as well; the Darkhallow was eating the spirits that were conjured up by the Wild Hunt's presence, not necessarily the Wild Hunt itself, as far as I could tell from the book. I think the Erlking being in danger may have been if he was caught in the backlash and subsequently consumed.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Kindler on February 27, 2018, 01:47:51 PM ---I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense to me. Does this mean that when, for example, Lloyd Slate was killed on the Stone Table, his Winter Knight's Mantle was transferred back to Winter and Mab as pure power, which Mab reshaped back into a Mantle? Or did it not do that because it was Winter Power going to Winter?
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So, that's actually a point of some discussion. By everything we learned about the Mantle during SK, the Stone Table should not have been required to pass the Knight Mantle; either court can make a new get a Knight all year long regardless of who's season it is to have the Table, and most Knights die in combat with their opposite rather than being sacrificed by their own Queen. IN SK they only needed the table to enact the Cross-Court transfer.
However, some have proposed that Mab used the Table to Purify the Power of the Winter Knight Mantle of any potential Nemfection, given how close Slate was working with both Maeve and Aurora. If the theory holds, it would mean that she was protecting herself, she was sacrificing the Power back to Herself and re-forming the Mantle, like reinstalling the OS to clear out a computer Virus (or some more appropriate metaphor).
--- Quote ---For what it's worth, that was my reading as well; the Darkhallow was eating the spirits that were conjured up by the Wild Hunt's presence, not necessarily the Wild Hunt itself, as far as I could tell from the book. I think the Erlking being in danger may have been if he was caught in the backlash and subsequently consumed.
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This was the point that I ultimately had to concede: Fae are just as much beings of Life Energy as mortals, so they should be subject to the Life-Vacuum fallout. Based on how the Guard are described to travel in back&forth across the NN boundary makes me think they'd be able to very easily avoid it, but the danger would not be truly Zero.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote ---2009 WoJ forum post:
5. cowl with darkhallow – really? just a bunch of spirits…
If he’d succeeded, he’d have had the collective power of all of those supernatural beings and then some. He’d have been clearly stronger than the Ladies, and a full-on equal to Mab. I mean, why do you think the Erlking was summoned as part of that ritual? Because that’s how the big E got so boss in the first place. :)
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My interpretation of this is that a mortal completing the Darkhallow ritual with the Erlking present, or any other spirit trapped in the vortex, would absorb their power for themselves.
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