The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
TT Harry in Proven Guilty
Griffyn612:
A fleshed out list of things Time-travel Harry (TTH) did while avoiding Proven Guilty Harry (PGH)
* TTH hit PGH with the car to prevent him from using the defective Little Chicago.
* TTH fixed LC while PGH and Bob were at the convention. (Or he fixed it while PGH was out and Bob was in, and ordered Bob not to tell PGH who did it) He then used it to find something or someone.
* TTH plugged the phone back in (PGH thought he'd forgotten) to make sure PGH didn't miss Molly's call.
* TTH would be the one to let Mab in on Maeve being infected (although she may have known if Maeve helped attack AT).
* TTH as WK was how Mab knew Harry'd become WK (although she technically said the "you'll kneel before me" thing in DB, she seems convinced he'll be her WK in SmF).
* Travelling in time while possessing the Warden mantle might cause the pre-ritual intellectus that Harry experienced in SmF. The island recognized him as a Warden before he was due to the fact that he was the Warden (for a day or two) before SmF while traveling back to PG.
* GK didn't know about Molly or the dark magic, but TTH clued him in (consciously or unconsciously) which ensured the message was delivered.
* The Scarecrow's look of recognition upon seeing Harry in the parking lot for the first time was because he'd recently seen him as WK. (I think someone theorized that TTH might have actually *been* the Scarecrow the entire time, and he used the Mask to manipulate himself into firing upon the fountain. Although I think that was shot down due to a WoJ on the Scarecrow being a long-time servant of Mab's)
* TTH cast the murk to slow down the Reaper phage at the convention, arriving before PGH and wrenching the door open with his WK strength. He then fled after PGH beat the phage, and PGH saw him slipping out.
* TTH was the one to bring Mab's attention on Molly, with him slipping up and implying she was important down the line. (Although she might have already been on her radar due to Lea's "first born" offer in GP)
* TTH would travel back in time by merging the two times in one place, a la Merlin's Demonreach five-times-in-one trick, and that Demonreach would be the bridge used to go back.
* With Mab, Lea, and Slate all on ice, TTH would be the one to lead the defense of AT.
* TTH accompanied the fetches to retrieve Molly (or at the minimum, ordered them to retrieve her but not kill her).
* Maggie accompanies TTH back, and leaves her C&H book in his lab (possibly while he's fixing LC).
* TTH figured out that Sandra Marling was suspicious and tracked her down. As she disappeared, it likely didn't end well for her.
* Sandra Marling is actually Mavra, and TTH killed her (see the WoK theory below for why)[li] ADDED: TTH and someone else were still in the frozen garden, hidden in plain sight as the frozen couple in Byzantine dress while they waited for events to play out.
[/li][/list]
Possible reasons for going back
* A bad guy goes back in time, and TTH has to go back to stop them from doing something different that will break things.
* Harry goes back for a piece of information that was only known by someone alive at that time, but who's now dead or doesn't remember. Candidates are Maeve, infected Lea, or a dead-in-the-future Mab.
* Harry needs to use Little Chicago to find something/someone, but as it doesn't exist in the future, he goes back to use it.
* Harry needs the Word of Kemmler. Mab cryptically tells him that the last time she saw it was just after the battle of Arctis Tor. He goes back, finds out that Sandra Marling was actually Mavra, and he kills her (she's been dead all this time and he didn't know it!) and claims the book for himself. When Mab "last saw it", it was with TTH as he went back to the future. (This pretty much requires the Sandra=Mavra theory to be accurate)
Personally I favor the last one (WoK theory) because it gives Harry a reason to go back to that time period. Interrogating infected-Lea seems like a good second choice, but it could also be a sub-plot of the main one.
raidem:
I'm going to add the importance of Murphy to pg. Harry's car getting hit brought Murphy into the mix. When charity prays for heaven's help after the baby hair doesn't work, Murphy arrives and suggests tracking Molly by charitys blood.
Murphy has access to Harry's apartment and can bypass the wards.
She knows about the lab.
Murphy involvement coincides with your points on mavens being involved and the Word in play. It was during Murphy's vacation that the Word/mavra plot played out. And it was Murphy that was the ultimate target of the blackmail.
And Murphy goes to arctic tor.
I'd say let's not completely dismiss some Mab=Murphy angle, where there is a empowered Murphy following Harry around.
exartiem:
I actually think it was Mab who fixed LC. She can drive a car or have someone do it. She would have access through Lea's garden. She is able to create incredibly complex schemes days and weeks in advance. And, as it has been said, she came out on top in the whole matter. Who knows how long she was trapped in the ice, or if that really completely incapacitated her?
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on February 18, 2018, 12:54:50 AM ---In support of the "Harry accompanied the fetches to the Carpenters' house" theory, I offer the following:
Or perhaps, remembering what was going to happen, and fearing the fetches would kill Molly rather than fetch her, Time-Travel Harry met them there and ordered them, as Winter Knight, to retrieve her and take her to Arctis Tor. When Molly opened the door and invited him and his friends in, the fetches crossed the threshold.
Either that, or he ordered them to fetch her, and told them to use his face if necessary.
--- End quote ---
That they got an invitation through the threshold was Harry's speculation. There's a WOJ to the effect that he's mistaken.
--- Quote ---The fetches in PG hammered down the /Carpenters’/ front door, and that’s a threshold like the rock of frickin’ Gibraltar.
--- End quote ---
http://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/
However, this particular WOJ was from well before Cold Days got published. Putting this under the lens of hindsight, I don't think this means they were just that beastly strong. I think it means they were able to hammer through the door because they were N-fected, and it freed them entirely from the usual requirement to respect a threshold.
Perhaps Maeve was hoping if Harry chased them back to Molly he'd choose to free dearly beloved Godmother Lea, or perhaps that something he saw at Arctis Tor would help sell her story that Mab had gone crazy.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on February 18, 2018, 03:19:05 PM ---That they got an invitation through the threshold was Harry's speculation. There's a WOJ to the effect that he's mistaken.http://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/
However, this particular WOJ was from well before Cold Days got published. Putting this under the lens of hindsight, I don't think this means they were just that beastly strong. I think it means they were able to hammer through the door because they were N-fected, and it freed them entirely from the usual requirement to respect a threshold.
Perhaps Maeve was hoping if Harry chased them back to Molly he'd choose to free dearly beloved Godmother Lea, or perhaps that something he saw at Arctis Tor would help sell her story that Mab had gone crazy.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure that's what Maeve intended, if it was her idea. But we still don't know who was behind that, as it could have been Maeve or Mab or TTH.
Scarecrow being infected would explain the hammering of the door, would explain the intelligence and recognition in Scarecrow's eyes, and would explain how Harry's magic didn't effect him (although the fear revelation later did that too).
But I'm (currently) kind of hoping that TTH was Scarecrow. I know it's not the case, but imagining it was TTH killing Glau for hitting Mouse with the van is cool. Not to mention TTH somehow knowing how to avoid his own spell, getting Molly to open her door for him, and positioning himself so that PGH would blast the fountain all seems cool.
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