The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Watchers
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Quantus on February 13, 2018, 01:23:23 PM ---This is a reasonable argument but for one thing: Magic. With things like fairies and oracle spirits and creepy Loa dolls there are a lot of ways that supernatural forces could confirm it was the work of non-supernatural forces.
--- End quote ---
How though? The Red Court used non-supernatural forces to kill wizards. How could they tell if the mortal forces were hired by the government, or by someone from the White Court? Mab, and Titania couldn't even figure out who killed the Summer Knight, and stole his Mantle. I'd bet Harry would find it much easier to figure out a person who murdered with magic than to try and figure out if Marcone put a hit on someone, and used guns. Neither Eb, or Thomas figured out who gunned down Harry, which you think they would both have been trying to figure it out. Lord Raith is notorious for killing off members of the White Court, yet he hasn't been figured out. Sure they probably suspect, or even know he did it. But they cannot prove it, and that's what's important to them.
Also would they care who killed one of their members enough to investigate it? The Red Court for example did not care that Harry killed one of their members. The excuse for war was that he broke the rules of hospitality, not that he actually killed her. Also to investigate say using the fairies means deal making, and a cost. Would any of the White Court care enough to invest anything into figuring out who killed Lara? I doubt it. The supernatural community seems more concerned about power. If Lara got gunned down, the families would be more concerned about grabbing power than to figure out who did it.
But lets say they investigated... Chances are they get a look at the vehicle, some mortals with guns, and an untraceable licence plate.. That could easily be a White Court operation. No trail left back to them. Especially since like I said before, Lord Raith made it a habit to kill people in his family. Didn't one of them even get thrown out of an airplane?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 13, 2018, 07:42:54 PM ---How though? The Red Court used non-supernatural forces to kill wizards. How could they tell if the mortal forces were hired by the government, or by someone from the White Court? Mab, and Titania couldn't even figure out who killed the Summer Knight, and stole his Mantle. I'd bet Harry would find it much easier to figure out a person who murdered with magic than to try and figure out if Marcone put a hit on someone, and used guns. Neither Eb, or Thomas figured out who gunned down Harry, which you think they would both have been trying to figure it out.
--- End quote ---
My next sentence was important: "Assuming of course that said Non-supernatural forces are ignorant of the sorts of Supernatural steps you'd need to take to cover your tracks." All those supernatural forces you mentioned either had means to hide what what happening (one fairy Queen actively hiding things from the rest) or didnt ever bother to hide the connection (the Mortal forces everyone knew the Reds were using). Or they were Kincaid, who has been doing this long enough to know how to hide every possible track.
But also, and more importantly, I think you are dramatically underestimating the ways that Magic can simply bypass all the normal investigative paths you'd try to hide/block. Remember that at the cost of some booze and tobacco Harry, a random mid-level Wizard, was able to whistle up a being that exists simultaneously in the past and future and was able to give him Truths and Secrets that actual, literal Angels had been trying to hide and/or failed to deliver. And that wasnt even tapping into his mysterious "Green Notebook" of extra scary NN information brokers.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Quantus on February 13, 2018, 08:07:59 PM ---My next sentence was important: "Assuming of course that said Non-supernatural forces are ignorant of the sorts of Supernatural steps you'd need to take to cover your tracks." All those supernatural forces you mentioned either had means to hide what what happening (one fairy Queen actively hiding things from the rest) or didnt ever bother to hide the connection (the Mortal forces everyone knew the Reds were using). Or they were Kincaid, who has been doing this long enough to know how to hide every possible track.
But also, and more importantly, I think you are dramatically underestimating the ways that Magic can simply bypass all the normal investigative paths you'd try to hide/block. Remember that at the cost of some booze and tobacco Harry, a random mid-level Wizard, was able to whistle up a being that exists simultaneously in the past and future and was able to give him Truths and Secrets that actual, literal Angels had been trying to hide and/or failed to deliver. And that wasnt even tapping into his mysterious "Green Notebook" of extra scary NN information brokers.
--- End quote ---
I don't agree. All kinds of people go around murdering other people. The White Council couldn't even figure out if Harry had committed murder, or acted in self defense. Harry didn't do anything to hide what he did. If they could have looked, they didn't even bother which goes to my point that nobody would even bother to investigate the murder of someone like Lara, or Lord Raith.
Also who did Harry need only tobacco and booze for? Was it Chauncy? If so the cost was a hell of a lot more, he gave up one of his Names. That's a big cost that I doubt others would be willing to pay.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 13, 2018, 08:17:33 PM ---Harry didn't just have tobacco, and booze. He had Toot's Name, and used it to influence him. No White Court vamp has the ability to do that.
--- End quote ---
Actually, he used a summoning ritual that was published no less, in "Dumont's Guide to Divinationators". This was the Loa spirit he summoned in GP which told him what the Fallen had prevented Angels of Heaven from telling the KotC. To be fair the Booze and Tobacco was the price to get her to show up, her price to give actual Answers was ""An honest answer to one question. Answer me and I will tell you what you seek." (GP ch. 8). And that is the crux of my point: with the magical ecosystem of TDF, ALL information is available, the only question is whether you are willing to Pay more to find it out than others are willing to Pay to keep it hidden. There is literally nothing else standing in their way, not even Time itself, and possibly not even Death.
Toot, fwiw, always either got summoned with the historic fairy standard of milk and bread and honey, or else the more modern (and far superior) Pizza & truename.
PS. All these years and I just noticed the use of the word "Divinationators" and it's my new favorite fantasy term. ;D
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Quantus on February 13, 2018, 08:27:02 PM ---Actually, he used a summoning ritual that was published no less, in "Dumont's Guide to Divinationators". This was the Loa spirit he summoned in GP which told him what the Fallen had prevented Angels of Heaven from telling the KotC. To be fair the Booze and Tobacco was the price to get her to show up, her price to give actual Answers was ""An honest answer to one question. Answer me and I will tell you what you seek." (GP ch. 8). And that is the crux of my point: with the magical ecosystem of TDF, ALL information is available, the only question is whether you are willing to Pay more to find it out than others are willing to Pay to keep it hidden. There is literally nothing else standing in their way, not even Time itself, and possibly not even Death.
Toot, fwiw, always either got summoned with the historic fairy standard of milk and bread and honey, or else the more modern (and far superior) Pizza & truename.
PS. All these years and I just noticed the use of the word "Divinationators" and it's my new favorite fantasy term. ;D
--- End quote ---
lol. Here is how i look at it, and maybe I'm wrong. If a homeless man was shot in some part of the country, and you got the FBI, CIA, NSA, and everyone working together, you will almost certainly catch who did it. If you throw enough money, manpower, and effort you can figure out just about anything. But are those players going to get involved to solve a crime like that? No. That's how I see this. Yes if someone was determined to find out who killed Lord Raith, or Lara, and were willing to pay whatever the cost, they will get the answer. But I just don't see anyone caring enough. If anything they would be glad it happened, and consider it good fortune. Creatures on the Earthly plane just don't care enough about their brethren to find out something like that. Lara and Thomas are actually fond of each other, probably more affection there than any of the others feel for one another. But would Lara pay a big price to find out who gunned down Thomas? I don't think she would.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version