The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Maggie have taken up a Coin?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on February 18, 2018, 05:47:48 AM ---Sorry, can't find it. I combed through the new WoJ site but couldn't find hide nor hare. But if I recall, it was someone asking if Lasciel knew what happened to Lash, and his response want that Lasciel knew everything Lash did.
Maybe someone else recalls it, or knows where it ended up.
--- End quote ---
Didn't Lasciel consider it a type of humiliation or something too? It wasn't actually Lasciel but it was her shadow, a type of clone meaning that she too could have been influenced in that way?
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on February 18, 2018, 04:09:39 AM ---Actually, I question that, because of the nature of a death curse.
Remember, a death curse works by drawing on the magical energy that makes a living creature a living creature, instead of aa mass of complicated organic compounds. That's why it kills you to throw it (or usually does, I can imagine freak circumstances where it might not quite kill you). Another way to think of a death curse is that it is self-human-sacrifice to power a spell.
That's why Harry was going to be able to throw one even when Aurora had him entrapped in a circle in Faerie. He was tapping into his own life-force which was already in the circle with him.
That suggests to me that a normal mundane, if they had the necessary magical knowledge, could probably throw a death curse, if they were ready to die to do it. It might not be as powerful as a Wizard's, but it would probably be plenty potent.
But...how would a normal learn that necessary knowledge in the first place? Why would they bother to study magic at that level of complexity, just to throw a spell one time that costs them their life to do it? Why would a Wizard or the equivalent teach someone that knowledge? It would be the equivalent of strapping on a suicide vest.
I suppose a ruthless Wizard might marshal a group of fanatics willing to do it, but somehow I suspect the Council would take a very dim view of a member weaponizing mundanes that way...they might even regard it as a violation of the First Law.
That said, I have little doubt Margaret still had access to her magic at the end. I suspect she would have to make use of it to evade the Court and the Council so long.
--- End quote ---
The way I look at it, you need not only knowledge, but the ability to apply that knowledge, and "having magic" is about the latter.
Like, Butters by now knows a lot about magic, and Harry I think says Butters grasps the technical stuff better than he does. But Butters can't directly manipulate magical energy and cast spells himself -- he has Bob powering his stuff. So while Butters could probably get the knowledge of how to do a death curse, he lacks the ability to actually gather and shape his life energy in that manner.
You might know the mechanics of a car inside and out from having worked on them your whole life, but if you don't have a toolbox, you're not going to be able to do so much as turn a screw.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 18, 2018, 06:11:48 AM ---Didn't Lasciel consider it a type of humiliation or something too? It wasn't actually Lasciel but it was her shadow, a type of clone meaning that she too could have been influenced in that way?
--- End quote ---
I think JB said that Harry couldn't have changed Lasciel. Maybe not in those exact words, but that was the gist. That Lash was malleable because part of he was Harry.
So I don't think Lasciel would have feared that. I think her motivation was her pride.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 18, 2018, 12:50:16 PM ---The way I look at it, you need not only knowledge, but the ability to apply that knowledge, and "having magic" is about the latter.
Like, Butters by now knows a lot about magic, and Harry I think says Butters grasps the technical stuff better than he does. But Butters can't directly manipulate magical energy and cast spells himself -- he has Bob powering his stuff. So while Butters could probably get the knowledge of how to do a death curse, he lacks the ability to actually gather and shape his life energy in that manner.
You might know the mechanics of a car inside and out from having worked on them your whole life, but if you don't have a toolbox, you're not going to be able to do so much as turn a screw.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but death curses are different, because the power source is different.
Keep in mind that JB has told us that everybody has some ability to use magic, but most people would have to work themselves to a frazzle for years to make anything significant happen, and even then it wouldn't be much. Some people have more natural ability to tap magical energy, some of this have even bigger intakes and these last are the potential Council-level Wizards.
But if you have for some reason mastered the knowledge, the power for a death curse doesn't have to be drawn in from outside, it comes from you. It's already there, ready to use. Everybody is magical, in the DV, the essence of life is magical. So there's no obvious reason why anybody with the knowledge couldn't throw a death curse...if they were willing to pay the price.
In fact, that might well explain the legends of people cursing someone on their death bed or with a dying breath, and results following. They might not have been Wizards, just people who managed a spontaneous, natural death curse.
Mr. Death:
I'm not talking about whether the power source is there or not.
I'm talking about the ability to manipulate that power source.
I'm positing that someone who's given up their magic has lost the tools to manipulate and shape that power source. Just like, for instance, a talented, experienced surgeon can no longer perform surgery if you took away their hands.
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