The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Maggie have taken up a Coin?
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on February 10, 2018, 12:45:22 AM ---Given Raith's protection from magic, and the fact that her death curse is apparently anchored to her children, I imagine it was more complicated than Cassius' curse, which wasn't very potent and only marginally effective, given that Harry had both Mab (the presumed whisperer) and Bonnie with him when he died.
--- End quote ---
Well, kind of what I was thinking was that using a birth to power some kind of spell was required for the Raith deal. We assume it was her death curse, but what if she used Harry's birth to anchor this reverse-bloodline-curse that she leveled against Papa Raith? I've even toyed with the idea that the thing was anchored at both ends; as long as the curse was in effect (i.e., Raith is still alive and hungry), Harry and Thomas (and by extension, Maggie and Ebenezer) were offered some kind of protection. It could have been what kept Harry hidden from Raith all those years; the old King would certainly have wanted Harry dead as soon as he realized what was done to him, rather than wait, you know, thirty-something years.
As for the Coin, I don't know about Lasciel. She knew something about her and what took place with the White Court, but we don't know that she knows anything more than the rest of the Nickelheads Nicodemus keeps with him—Nic mentions that he knew and respected Margaret in Death Masks over his creepy-calm torture breakfast. Namshiel is interesting, and I got the feeling that Thorny goes through hosts relatively quickly, considering that he's never seen outside his shapeshifted form. I don't think that Margaret would have accepted a Coin from something that was so dominating, however. Lasciel is a better fit for her personality.
Against that, however, I absolutely believe that Lasciel would have started talking smack about Harry's mom in Hades's Vault, though. She wouldn't have been able to help herself, and nothing would have cut Harry more than this exchange:
"No one's ever turned me down before, Harry. Not once. Not even your mother."
I'd imagine Harry would have gone into a miniature mental tailspin from that, and Lasciel would've wanted to twist the knife—so would Ascher.
Rosanna is a possibility; even the Poor Demon Girl act would have been compatible with what we know about Margaret's personality (as in, I could see Margaret pulling it off).
Still, Namshiel's possible infection makes him a strong candidate; I believe Margaret's overriding goal for a long time was stopping the Outsiders, and putting a Denarian in the line of fire of Nemesis is too tantalizing to ignore for me. I just don't think I could reconcile that with Margaret's personality.
Mr. Death:
Lord Raith may not have known that Harry existed for a while. He probably didn't know about Maggie Sr.'s marriage -- if he had known that much about her, he probably would've been able to get to her sooner.
And he may not have known the exact mechanics of the curse against him. It's not like it would've popped up with an infobox detailing what's keeping it on him -- just, one day after he killed Maggie Sr., he couldn't feed. He might have guessed/presumed it was her death curse, but even if he did know it was anchored to her bloodline, he would've thought of Thomas first -- and given he didn't start trying to kill him when he was five, he apparently didn't know this for a while.
Long enough to have completely lost track of Harry and Malcolm Dresden, if he even knew about them in the first place. Hell, if he was aware of Malcolm Dresden, he's probably the type who would've tried to kill him immediately for the crime of taking a woman that Raith believed was his.
So to my mind, evidence points to Raith simply not knowing the nature of the curse against him or Harry's existence until much later in life.
So I don't think any protection was necessary. Ebenezer certainly didn't need it, and Harry was plenty protected by being Harry Dresden and not Harry McCoy.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 12, 2018, 04:06:18 PM ---Lord Raith may not have known that Harry existed for a while. He probably didn't know about Maggie Sr.'s marriage -- if he had known that much about her, he probably would've been able to get to her sooner.
And he may not have known the exact mechanics of the curse against him. It's not like it would've popped up with an infobox detailing what's keeping it on him -- just, one day after he killed Maggie Sr., he couldn't feed. He might have guessed/presumed it was her death curse, but even if he did know it was anchored to her bloodline, he would've thought of Thomas first -- and given he didn't start trying to kill him when he was five, he apparently didn't know this for a while.
Long enough to have completely lost track of Harry and Malcolm Dresden, if he even knew about them in the first place. Hell, if he was aware of Malcolm Dresden, he's probably the type who would've tried to kill him immediately for the crime of taking a woman that Raith believed was his.
So to my mind, evidence points to Raith simply not knowing the nature of the curse against him or Harry's existence until much later in life.
So I don't think any protection was necessary. Ebenezer certainly didn't need it, and Harry was plenty protected by being Harry Dresden and not Harry McCoy.
--- End quote ---
True enough; my thinking was that Harry was in The System for years, and Raith was smart enough to figure things out. It may have taken a while, but it's not like Harry was hidden. There was definitely some kind of paper trail. Raith must've realized what Margaret did to him eventually.
Regardless, I went back and read the WOJ on death curses, and he does specify that what Margaret did to Raith was a death curse, so the point is moot.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 12, 2018, 04:06:18 PM ---Lord Raith may not have known that Harry existed for a while. He probably didn't know about Maggie Sr.'s marriage -- if he had known that much about her, he probably would've been able to get to her sooner.
And he may not have known the exact mechanics of the curse against him. It's not like it would've popped up with an infobox detailing what's keeping it on him -- just, one day after he killed Maggie Sr., he couldn't feed. He might have guessed/presumed it was her death curse, but even if he did know it was anchored to her bloodline, he would've thought of Thomas first -- and given he didn't start trying to kill him when he was five, he apparently didn't know this for a while.
Long enough to have completely lost track of Harry and Malcolm Dresden, if he even knew about them in the first place. Hell, if he was aware of Malcolm Dresden, he's probably the type who would've tried to kill him immediately for the crime of taking a woman that Raith believed was his.
So to my mind, evidence points to Raith simply not knowing the nature of the curse against him or Harry's existence until much later in life.
So I don't think any protection was necessary. Ebenezer certainly didn't need it, and Harry was plenty protected by being Harry Dresden and not Harry McCoy.
--- End quote ---
Maggie getting hit with the curse while she was in labor with Harry seems pretty unlikely that Raith wasn't aware of her pregnancy... What are the odds the curse would hit right at that time?
Personally I'm wondering if he wasn't actually the one behind it, and it's just been assumed the entire time he was.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 12, 2018, 06:41:25 PM ---Maggie getting hit with the curse while she was in labor with Harry seems pretty unlikely that Raith wasn't aware of her pregnancy... What are the odds the curse would hit right at that time?
Personally I'm wondering if he wasn't actually the one behind it, and it's just been assumed the entire time he was.
--- End quote ---
That is a sticky point, yeah. Though there are ways he could have found out that she was pregnant without knowing the details. And he may have assumed the child had died, too.
Off the top of my head...
He could've been looking for her the whole time, but she was shielding herself until labor forced her to let her guard down.
He could've had his supernatural contacts on the look out for when she emerged and was vulnerable, and got the tip off right as it was happening.
He might have only gotten in touch with HWWB recently, and the timing of the birth was a coincidence or influenced by HWWB.
He might have just let fly with the spell without having any idea where she was or what she was doing, and the stress of getting hit with the spell induced the labor.
Because I think we can agree that if Lord Raith had known about Harry at that point, he would have taken a shot at him unless something was stopping him; either, as you suggest, Maggie Sr. did something to that effect (the deal with Lea, though, is more likely to account for such a thing, I think); or Lord Raith simply didn't know Harry was out there as a target.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version